Stamps/Double or Nonsense Stamps89 messages

I don't understand where it says someone here is a criminal? If you mean me then you really misunderstood me. It concerns illegal issues as Erik also describes them. And I don't think you should cooperate with that. In addition, they are still issued to defraud people (check the WADP list). Nothing to do with a bootleg, which is made by / for the music lover.

Most illegal stamps are unimaginably ugly. Anyone who buys them is being ripped off just as much as the collectors of "personal stamps", which I may also be banned. ;-)

As long as they are not real forgeries (imitations of original stamps, coins, etc.), that is the responsibility of the collector himself and not Catawiki.

It seems like a good idea to block the trade in illegal items from a liability perspective. That is no more than an implementation of Art. 5.2-ii-b and g of the Terms of Use.

See the developments on other sites where these publications were quickly removed after joint intervention by duped postal administrations and trademark owners (it often concerns stamps with protected trademark or image rights such as the Olympic rings). So a waste of work to post them.

In recent years, large quantities of these stamps and promotional material have been confiscated at major fairs.

So this is not about cinderella's (those are countries of non-existent postal areas such as Staffa) but about pure scam, and there the sale of, for example, perforating machines by the U.P.U. are closely monitored, these are large criminal organizations.

Within organized philately (UPU / postal administrations, collectors 'associations, traders' associations, catalog publishers and philatelic journalists) there is a great deal of agreement about banning these (indeed often hideous) fake products.

I have been able to follow the hunt for these products very closely and that only strengthens my position.

Wederom bangmakerij,

daar de verkoop van bijvoorbeeld tandingsmachines door de U.P.U. nauwlettend wordt gevolgd betreft het hier grote crimininele organisaties. 

een stelletjes upgegrade postpodes achter de mafia aan, lijkt me meer iets voor de poltie of interpol.

De politie gaat wel serieus achter grote henneptelers aan dat zijn grote criminele organisaties, maar je mag gewoon blowen....

Ik heb me gisteren rot gezocht op internet naar enig jurispundentie betreffende de handel in nepzegels maar niets maar dan ook niet spannends hierover gevonden.

Binnen de georganiseerde filatelie (UPU/postadministraties, verzamelaarsverenigingen, handelarenverenigingen, catalogusuitgevers en filatelistisch journalisten) is er een grote mate van overeenstemming over het weren van deze (inderdaad vaak ook nog eens foeilelijke) nepprodukten. 

Is dit misschien een van de redenen dat de invloed van de georganiseerde filatelie binnen 10 jaar bijna helemaal is uitgespeelt? en het volk (de verzamelaars) via oa internet met hele ander dingen bezig is? de kloof tussen de gewone verzamelaar en de georganiseerde is nog nooit zo groot geweest.....

De tegenstanders blazen dit naar mijn mening op tot hysterische proporties 

Uit de discusie blijkt dat ook in andere verzamel gebieden nep voorkomt, dit soort rariteiten maakt verzamelen alleen maar leuker, en het verbieden ervan bij voorbaat kansloos, je kan het alleenmaar gedogen, het is er en verzamelaars willen het

Scaremongering again,

since the sale of, for example, perforation machines is closely monitored by the UPU, these are large criminal organizations. 

a couple of upgraded postpodes after the mafia, seems more like something for the police or interpol.

The police are serious about going after large hemp growers, which are large criminal organizations, but you can just smoke weed....

Yesterday I searched the internet for any jurisprudence regarding the trade in fake stamps, but found nothing but nothing exciting about it.

Within organized philately (UPU/postal administrations, collectors' associations, dealers' associations, catalog publishers and philatelic journalists) there is a large degree of agreement on the exclusion of these (indeed, often also hideous) fake products. 

Is this perhaps one of the reasons why the influence of organized philately has almost completely worn out within 10 years? and the people (the collectors) are busy with completely different things via the internet, for example? the gap between the ordinary collector and the organized has never been greater...

The opponents, in my opinion, are blowing this up to hysterical proportions 

The discussion shows that fakes also occur in other collecting areas, these kinds of rarities only make collecting more fun, and banning them in advance has no chance, you can only tolerate it, it is there and collectors want it

Dear All,

I have just read through all the opinions and have to conclude that we are not making any progress.

I have drawn my eye to the contribution below in this discussion by Sindbad.

Maybe we should (my feeling says that the 'hardcore' collectors are involved in this discussion ') should sit around the table (digitally) to see if we can bring some coherence to the catalog and the level of the comic department .

I propose that 6 members of Catawiki, part of stamps, for example, meet centrally twice a year to hit nails with their heads. "NOT DIGITAL". The contribution in the Forum can be discussed here and decisions made and recorded in an appointment list that is accessible to everyone.

The first registration has now been received.

greetings Pieter Stamp-swap

Catawiki's goal is to catalog everything that is collected. The cataloging in itself (if necessary without an image if this causes major problems) of such illegal stamps does not seem to me to be a legal problem. We do indeed catalog illegal comics, books, records, etc. Reading the discussion, I think we should take a good look at the trade in these stamps. In addition, it seems to me that there is a difference between someone who offers an illegal publication as a curiosity where it is clear to everyone that it is an illegal publication and someone who consciously tries to sell an unreal object (counterfeit) as genuine. Erik, let's discuss this thoroughly together.

Maybe we should (my feeling says that the 'hardcore' collectors are involved in this discussion 'one time (digitally) around the table to see if we have any bring coherence to the catalog and reach the level of the comic book department .

I propose that 6 members of Catawiki, part of stamps, for example, meet centrally twice a year to hit nails with their heads. "NOT DIGITAL". The contribution in the Forum can be discussed here and decisions made and recorded in an appointment list that is accessible to everyone.

The first registration has now been received.

I think it would be a good idea to get together physically soon and see how we can further improve the stamps section. We have already done this several times with the comics managers and also with the record managers. We have a nice location in Utrecht. I suggest that people who want to be there in addition to Sindbad and Stamp-swap send me a message so that I can organize this.

The discussion shows that fake occurs in other collection areas too

Exactly.
And that is why I do not really understand why a group of stamp collectors are now apparently getting together to discuss this, while this affects almost all collection areas.

@Arwin, as far as I am concerned, this is not the reason to get together. In any case, it seemed a good idea to discuss the points for improvement regarding the stamps section with the administrators. Previous consultation on the comics and record section was very helpful. By the way, we can certainly also physically meet for more sections. In the future, a general Catawiki administrator day would also be very interesting and fun as far as I'm concerned.

@ René.
Personally, it seems more interesting to me what a lawyer has to say about this than that all the opinions of laymen are now being collected.

@ Rene,

Thank you for your response, the discussion slowly turned into a trench warfare where for and opponents dug deeper and deeper.

I look forward to an open discussion

@Arwin,

It is specifically about stamps because in the other collection areas it is allowed (turning a blind eye), but it is definitely not allowed with the stamps at the moment.

And how do you know I'm a layman? have a legal function at an import / export company and have a lot to do with claims regarding smuggling of fake and counterfeit articles, do know a bit where the clapper is in this discussion (that's why I react like that to certain "bold" claims)

Just because it's allowed to turn a blind eye doesn't mean it's correct.
It does affect all collection areas.
Otherwise I would of course never have gotten involved in this discussion.

@Arwin,

Out of sheer irritation I did a small investigation but I have not found any jurisprudence that anyone in the Netherlands has ever been convicted for collecting or trading in Cinderellas, but for urinating in the open.

And how do you know I'm a layman? have a legal position at an import / export company and have a lot to do with claims regarding smuggling of fake and counterfeit articles, know a bit where the clapper is in this discussion (that's why I react like that to certain "bold" claims)

Excusses Sinbad, of course I didn't know (because you haven't mentioned that anywhere, of course)

That I thought you were a layman is because of this comment

1) Criminal = committing a criminal offense , collecting / cataloging / dealing on a small scale of (obvious) fake stamps is really not covered (in the Netherlands you have an association for child predators, you are allowed to have sex with animals , Have 10 grams of Hashh in your pocket and have a fake Rolex on your wrist, they even test your XTC pills for purity for free, no one is really going to worry about a fake stamp from Congo here ...

The point is that Catawiki is getting bigger, and at a certain point it is indeed an interesting party that can be tackled.
Then we are not the person who walks down the street with 10 grams of hash, but the ones who ensure that people can trade hash on a massive scale.

Sex with animals has been banned since February 2, 2010, just so you know.

Out of sheer irritation I did a small investigation but I have not found any jurisprudence that anyone in the Netherlands has ever been convicted for collecting or trading in Cinderellas, but for urinating in the wild ;-)

Comic books are offered on Catawiki that cannot be sold in a normal comic store. (and there is case law on that)
And then I wonder if that is allowed just like that.
In my opinion, it goes much further than stamps.

Interesting, Arwin. Do you have examples with CW numbers?

Interesting, Arwin. Do you have examples with CW numbers?

Hm, here I am going to be in error I see I thought I remembered that the "The beaming peeper" was banned, but now that I have checked it a bit more to be sure, it appears that the high council decided at the time that it was allowed because it is a parody.
Apparently I had missed that at the time.

@ Arwin,

The trade in fake (really good and beautiful) Rolexes is prohibited, however, dozens of shipments with fake Rolexes from Hong Kong to private persons in the Netherlands and Belgium go through every day via large senders such as TNT, FEDEX, DHL, etc., despite the fact that customs know. what is in it just not interesting, will not put a link on this site but there are hundreds of websites from Hong-kong with perfect "replicas" of Rolex and other expensive watch brands when you order them 99% will arrive at home, if they are not uncovered by customs once a fine only loses your shipment (less than 10 watches in 1 shipment), if you send the receipt to Hong-kong of the seizure, they will send it again for free .. take a look at the marketplace at men's watches is completely full of fake -Rolexes open and naked ... that is really of a much heavier caliber than a few stamps from the Moluccas or a porn version of Suske en Wiske

You may well be right, Sinbad.

It seems to me personally that there is a difference between the examples you give and the situation on Catawiki.

Comparing Catawiki with websites in Hong Kong makes little sense, I think.
As far as I am concerned, the comparison with Marktplaats is not entirely valid.
Anyone can post something there quickly, and it is almost impossible to control by the site itself because it is a coming and going of items.
If you see things on e-bay that are illegal (for example a copy of a computer game) you can report it, and they will get it from the site.
It is therefore not the case that everything is allowed on an auction site.
It is more that they do not actively pursue it themselves. (they don't have to)

On Catawiki, things are approved by administrators.
Then you explicitly agree that people will trade in this on your site.
That also seems to me to immediately increase your liability.

The point is that there is a lawyer associated with Catawiki, who is one of the foremost specialists on trademark law in the Netherlands.
Then I'd rather be asked to be asked than be decided on things like this here in the forum.

There is a good chance that he agrees with you, but this touches the heart of Catawiki, so I would rather have it sorted out properly.

@ Arwin,

Totally agree, we await the opinion of the lawyer in this case.

See if the soup is eaten as hot as it is served.

Exactly, because I don't know how it works.
It's more that I have questions about this.

Hier kun je zien om welke grootschalige bedragen het gaat en welke partijen er door benadeeld worden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_stamps#Consequences_of_illegal_postage_issues

Hier de argumenten waarom ze niet afgebeeld zouden moeten worden.

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/frame-illegals-en.htm

htttp://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/images-on-sites.htm

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/images-on-sites.htm

En hier de emissies waar het om gaat

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/frame-illegals-en.htm

Ik vind alleen al het feit dat veel handelaren en verzamelaars deze emissies immoreel vinden een voldioende krachtig argument om je er verre van te houden..

Nu begrijp ik dat Catawiki om redenen van 'morele' aard al geen porno op neemt., en dat komt mooi uit want een deel van het illegale materiaal bevat poronografische afbeeldingen....

Hier kun hje zien dat de benadeelde landen onmiddelijk actie ondernemen

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=20144

in dit geval is ook het WWF betrokken als rehthebbende van het WWF beeldmerk. Postadministraties moeten betalen als dit op de zegel staat. Deze zegels kunnen vervolgend ook door catalogi zonder problemen afgebeeld worden. anders ligt het natuurlijk bij illegale zegels.

Tenslotte is een deel van de illegale zegels beledigend (Kirgizië, Clinton met sigaar) of wordt er inbreuk gemaakt op het portetrecht.

Here you can see which large-scale amounts are involved and which parties are disadvantaged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_stamps#Consequences_of_illegal_postage_issues

Here are the arguments why they should not be depicted.

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/frame-illegals-en.htm

htt tp://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/images-on-sites.htm

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/images-on-sites.htm

And here are the emissions in question

http://www.pwmo.org/Illegals/frame-illegals-en.htm

I find the mere fact that many dealers and collectors find these emissions immoral a strong enough argument to steer clear of them.

Now I understand that Catawiki already doesn't list porn for "moral" reasons, and that's a good thing because some of the illegal material contains pornographic images....

Here you can see that the affected countries are taking immediate action

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=20144

in this case, the WWF is also involved as the rightful owner of the WWF logo. Postal administrations have to pay if it is written on the stamp. Subsequently, these stamps can also be displayed in catalogs without any problems. otherwise it is of course with illegal stamps.

Finally, some of the illegal stamps are offensive (Kyrgyzstan, Clinton with a cigar) or infringe on postage rights.

het argument om ze niet af te beelden gaat in Catawiki m.i. niet op omdat in Catawiki duidelijk vermeld staat dat ze niet officieel zijn en op het internet is die informatie nu juist niet vermeld omdat die verkopers juist willen dat ze verkocht worden...

Dus om die reden hoeven verzamelaars/kopers op Catawiki niet extra beschermd te worden, ze zien alle relevante informatie...

the argument not to depict them does not apply to Catawiki because it is clearly stated in Catawiki that they are not official and on the internet that information is not mentioned precisely because those sellers want them to be sold...

So for that reason collectors/buyers on Catawiki do not need extra protection, they see all relevant information...

Now I understand that for reasons of a 'moral' nature, Catawiki is already not recording porn.

Is that so Erik?

What is this then?
182329

I'll spare you the other porn comics, but this is no exception

Now I understand that for reasons of a 'moral' nature, Catawiki is already not including porn

Only concerns DVDs so far. I do not understand anything about it, and I do not agree with it. If you don't look for them you won't find them. I would like Catawiki as a company to keep away from personal value judgments and limit intervention to, for example, the prohibition on the posting of certain images (if that should prove to be legally necessary). For those types of items, a standard Catawiki image can be designed to make this clear, but it does give the opportunity to describe the item.