Stamps/Stamp & Coin Auction219 messages

It is a pity that it is now playing during the holiday period

This is indeed a pity, and that it got out of hand, is also due to the holiday period.

That hidden rule about not having to link is certainly a mitigating circumstance.
Jos could have mentioned that himself as well, in order to take the sting out of this discussion.

Although I take it high, because the way in which auctioneer Jos has wrongly insisted on this, has damaged the DNA of this site in my opinion, and the discussion that got out of hand in my opinion can be traced back to that , I will refrain from commenting until René returns from vacation.

But then there will also have to be a good story, and a guarantee that this auction master will take criticism into account from now on.
So René, if you are reading this, you will already know that.

Jos could also have mentioned that himself, in order to take the sting out of this discussion.

Not only did he not bother with that specific stamp auction. rule, his reply even confirmed that the criticism was justified:

When René and Marco are back from vacation, I will ask to change the rules for the stamp and coin auction .

For the time being, I take responsibility for placing the upcoming auctions, even though some lots are not entirely in accordance with the current rules.

Arwin:
That hidden line

And there are more and that is a shame.

If you then ask something about it: nothing, nada.

@Dick,

Just nonsense especially when you read that the catalog value of some catalog is stated 20 times the final lot yield!

Dear Dick about catalog value and actual value of stamps have already been filled 500 forums, the proceeds from the CW stamp auction are relatively high, some lots bring in much more than I thought (and in all modesty I have a reasonable look at) 1/20 of the catalog value is stamp-technical with bluk offers very high on average it fluctuates between 1/40 and 1/60, I think that the high yields at CW stamp auctions are relatively high and reason for the many auction entries. This is separate from the whole discussion, but I just want to explain to Dick that it has been possible for years in the stamp industry that the actual value and the catalog value is a ratio of 1 in 4 to 1 in 20 in bulk sales, it can go up to 1 in 100 or 200, very difficult but that has been the practice for many years, depending on the country, era and stamped or not stamped you divide the catalog value by 4 to 20, unworkable for the uninitiated ... but don't shoot the postman :)

FDCs with a catalog value of 1600 euros ... if you catch 150 euros you are a big deal :) ... A shoe box for kings' heads..catalogue value 40,000 actual value 2 euros .... different game..different rules

The content of this is separate from this discussion but I just wanted to say it to Dick :)

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/22085-nederland-complete-collectie-fdc-s-e59-e446a

D his FDCs with 2 days to go are already at 200 euros, which is in my opinion 2 to 3 times more than they are worth. (I would never give more of 70 for it)

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21299-nederland-159-fdc-s-tussen-e300-en-e494

55 euros for 159 NL FDCs (with 2 days to go) from next years ?????

As an example of how this can manifest itself in comics, you can look at lot 101 . It is impossible to link each page of all those scrapbooks separately to the catalog and because it is a very attractive lot for collectors, we have decided to allow this anyway.

Eh .. It would have been crazy if this had not been allowed, Tammo, because in fact scrapbooks are offered here. And that is why, after much thought, I advised the seller to enter the empty scrapbooks into Catawiki, and put them up for auction, indicating what is in those scrapbooks. Completely by the rules, all, even if this solution may seem comical.

In the same way, you can also offer empty stock albums with a collection of stamps or coins. All by the book, although there are of course limits that can be set by auctioneers. But loose items should just be in the catalog, that stays true for me.

By the way, the value of the Sigmund lot is mainly in the volume , because as is well known, taped-in comics are worth a lot less than individually kept copies.

Weird guys who are Dutch ;-)

By the way, where can I find the cardboard boxes on Catawiki :-D

You have a good idea. A world collectors catalog. Bringing all collectible objects together in 1 online catalog. AWESOME.

Of course you need the support and support of many, many volunteers. They are there because the idea is good and appealing. You will reward these volunteers for their necessary contributions with the opportunity to record their own collection and the opportunity to offer their duplicate or no longer collected objects for sale.

The growth is phenomenal. Already more than 1.5 million objects and 60,000 collectors. Collectors put an enormous amount of time and effort into making the catalog bigger and better without any compensation. However, this growth requires rules and the necessity to have the growth guided by professional forces. But these professionals don't do that for nothing. They want a reward for their work. Publication of the CATAWIKI formula (advertising and promotion) also costs money.

You therefore ask collector / sellers a financial contribution to reach a certain sales level. However, this is not enough because the costs increase as the catalog grows. Organizing auctions is also an opportunity to generate money.

The professional traders (who always substantiate their high price level by having high costs: shop, energy, VAT, etc.) see this as extremely cheap way to sell their wares. Hardly any effort (because that's what the volunteers have already done) and a turnkey market has been created for them.

However, this does mean that the unique concept of CATAWIKI is violated and descends to the level of highly commercial sites such as E-bay and Marktplaats.

In my opinion, the founders stand up, as is sometimes discussed in many companies, for the choice we honor the old rationale and opt for the point of view of the collector or do we go for turnover. A major role must be played by the fact that the motivation of the collector is permanent and the traders will always drop out if there is no more money to be made.

It is clear that this choice will have far-reaching consequences. Collectors need to understand that this site will eventually NOT be able to exist without any commerce whatsoever. Traders, on the other hand, will need to realize that CATAWIKI represents an opportunity for them to sell their wares and they should make an EFFORT to do so, stop parasitizing the effort of others, stop complaining and keep their price level affordable. have to make.

CATAWIKI is a great concept so don't kill it!

@Dick,

@Sinbad het gaat er om dat er wordt beweerd dat item 1600 waard is volgens een catalogus! Dan mag je aannemen als jou verhaal klopt de veilingmeester dit ook weet en dat aangeeft. Erger is dat dit catawiki schaadt! Vekoop dit spul bij Ebay Marktplaats en als dat minder opbrengt jammer zie je ook de waarde van catawiki's vrijwillegerswerk, inversteer daar dan als verkoper in en niet snel scoren! Als het zo doorgaat is het de nagel aan! Wat gebeurd er met rubrieken welke geen of nagenoeg geen verkoop hebben! de comercie wordt steed belangrijker en zet je op die plaatsen mensen neer die geen catawikigevoel hebben is het einde verhaal catawiki!

Dick, je hebt helemaal gelijk hoor, ik sta aan jouw kant in deze :), deze ontwikkeling heb ik maanden geleden al geconstateerd en deze zorg toen uitgesproken op het forum, maarja ben nu eenmaal hysterisch dramatisch :)

@Arco,

Eh... het had gek geweest als dit niet was toegelaten, Tammo, want in feite worden hier plakboeken aangeboden. En daarom heb ik de verkoper na veel peinzen geadviseerd om de lege plakboeken in te voeren in Catawiki, en die ter veiling aan te bieden met daarbij aangegeven wat er zich in die plakboeken bevindt.

Ik vindt hem wel goed, jullie hebben gelijk wat betreft de catalogus teveel luie geldwolven maken misbruik (buiten commercieel uit) vrijwiligers, dat is lomp en bot gezegd ... maar wel waar het in iedergeval gevoelsmatig voor veel fanatieken vrijwilligers (beheerders en invoerders) van het eerste uur op uitkomt.

Dat gevoel delen we met meer, en als je ze dan ter orde roept dan wordt er niet (of veel te laat en summier) op wordt gereageerd wat dat dan weer versterkt..

Jongens bedankt voor het vullen van de verzamelsupermarkt, Lets make lots of money.

Dat proef ik een beetje uit de reacties van de oude garde die nu los gaat??? of moet ik nu weer van Arco mijn luier omdoen?

Edit 'John legt de oorzaak goed uit'

@Dick,

@Sinbad the point is that item is claimed to be worth 1600 according to a catalog! Then you can assume that if your story is correct, the auctioneer also knows this and indicates this. Worse is that this harms catawiki! Buy this stuff at Ebay Marktplaats and if that yields less, too bad you also see the value of Catawiki's voluntary work, invest in it as a seller and don't score quickly! If it continues like this it's the nail on! What happens to sections that have little or no sales! commerce is becoming more and more important and you put people in those places who have no catawiki feeling, the end of the catawiki story!

Dick, you are absolutely right, I am on your side in this :), I noticed this development months ago and then expressed this concern on the forum, but I am hysterically dramatic :)

@Arco,

Eh... it would have been weird if this wasn't allowed, Tammo, because scrapbooks are actually offered here. And that is why, after much reflection, I advised the seller to enter the empty scrapbooks in Catawiki and to offer them for auction with an indication of what is in those scrapbooks.

I think it's good, you're right about the catalog too many lazy money wolves abuse (exploit commercially) volunteers, that's rude and bluntly said ... but it is true in any case emotionally for many fanatical volunteers (administrators and importers) from the first hour on.

We share that feeling with others, and if you raise them then there will be no (or much too late and brief) response, which in turn reinforces it.

Guys thanks for filling the collection supermarket, Lets make lots of money.

I sense that a bit from the reactions of the old guard who are now going wild??? or do I have to put on my diaper again from Arco?

Edit 'John explains the cause well'

Wat wel en wat niet koppelen aan de Catawiki-catalgus, met heel veel bulk kan dan een discussie worden.

Deze:

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21845-nederland-collectie-combinaties-uit-automaatboekjes

en

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/22005-aruba-collectie-fdc-s-e1-t-m-e125

Kunnen naar mijn mening makkelijk aan de catalogus worden gelinkt

Maar deze 2 gaan mij echt te ver...Deze staan niet eens als Item in Catawiki!!!!!!!

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21249-nederland-1999-verrassingszegels-in-compleet-vel-nvph-1824-1825

Als je een vel aanbied op de veiling moet je hem naar mijn mening ook invoeren in de catawiki-catalogus niet linken aan de losse zegel die er al in staat een vel is geen zegel - het is een vel, een nieuw catwiki-item dus

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857-aandelen-50-verschillende-meest-frankrijk-en-belgi

En 50 Franse en Belgische aandelen???? Staan al deze aandelen al in de Catawikicatalogus???? 50 ...het zijn er toch geen 5.000??

Kwaliteitsomschrijving fraai tot unc, hoeveel zijn er fraai (wat een net woord voor verrot is) en hoeveel UNC????

50 verschillende meest Franse en Belgische aandelen in de kwaliteit verfrommelt propje tot gloednieuw..hoe vaag kun je zijn???? zet dan gewoon neer ''een zak vol voornamelijk Bourgondisch lekkers'' dat is netzo niets zeggend.

Veilingmeester Jos, kun jij mij uitleggen waarom die laatste 2 toch zo in de veiling terecht zijn gekomen ?

Moeten gebruikers nu Catawiki gaan controleren of de ingebrachte veilingstukken wel in Catawiki-catalogus staan ????

What to link to the Catawiki catalog and what not, with a lot of bulk can then become a discussion.

This one:

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21845-nederland-collection-combinations-from-automatic booklets

and

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/22005-aruba-collection-fdc-s-e1-tm-e125

Can be easily linked to the catalog in my opinion

But these 2 are really going too far for me... These are not even an Item in Catawiki!!!!!!!

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21249-nederland-1999-verrassingszegels-in-compleet-vel-nvph-1824-1825

In my opinion, if you offer a sheet at the auction, you should also enter it in the catawiki catalog, do not link it to the loose stamp that is already there, a sheet is not a stamp - it is a sheet, so a new catwiki item

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857-aandelen-50-differente-most-frankrijk-en-belgi

And 50 French and Belgian shares???? Are all these stocks already in the Catawiki catalog???? 50 ...there aren't 5,000, are they??

Quality description fine to unc, how many are fine (which is a neat word for rotten) and how many UNC????

50 different mostly French and Belgian stocks in the quality crumpled wad to brand new..how vague can you be???? then just put down ''a bag full of mainly Burgundian goodies'' that is just as meaningless.

Auctioneer Jos, can you explain to me why those last 2 ended up in the auction like this?

Do users now have to check Catawiki to see whether the submitted auction items are in the Catawiki catalog ????

These are not even listed as an Item in Catawiki !!!!!!!

http://veiling.catawiki.nl / lots / 21249-the-netherlands-1999-surprise-stamps-in-complete-sheet-nvph-1824-1825

That is why they are also called 'surprise' stamps. It is a real surprise what you get.

Or have I not understood it again ???

I am back from vacation. I will respond to this discussion this afternoon.

welcome back, hopefully had a good holiday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpgezwWmzlI
for perspective

Last night I read the entire forum discussion and I must honestly say that I am shocked by the fierceness of the reactions and the way Jos is burned down.

The starting point for the auction is that the lots offered at the auction are linked to items in the Catawiki catalog. This sets us apart from other auctions. It provides a number of important benefits. If an item is already in the catalog, the buyer simply receives additional background information about the item, which is very valuable to him. If the item is not yet in the catalog, it provides new interesting additions to the catalog.

From the start that we started with the auctions, we have seen that there are situations where a lot consists of a lot. items exists and that it is impracticable to link all individual items. The example given by Sinbad about stock books and a large collection of FDCs are examples of this.

We then agreed with the auctioneers that they will see what the best solution is in those situations. One solution is, for example, to add a lot of extra photos so that the buyer gets a good idea of what is being offered. These photos provide a better picture than numerous links to items in the catalog. You will therefore now also see lots appear where a lot of photos are added. http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/22085 -netherlands-complete-collection-fdc-s-e59-e446a

You can find examples of this type of situation at the last comic, book and stamp / coin auction . We notice that this situation is more common with the stamp and coin auctions because there are often larger numbers of items that are offered in a lot in order to make them more interesting lots from a philatelic point of view. It also happens more often that items are not yet in the catalog.

What went wrong is that the agreement we have made about this has not been properly communicated. You can also see that in the comments. Many people assume that the agreement is “everything must be” linked. While other people indicate that they have seen other agreements.

I understand well that administrators stick to the agreement that they believe is valid. After all, that is one of the important roles that administrators play: to ensure that we keep the quality of the catalog high. And that is why we make agreements in many areas. And I also understand that administrators feel passed over if it turns out that there is also another appointment.

If we had communicated this properly, we would have had a discussion on the forum at that time and not afterwards. as is happening now. I regret that because it is not our intention to have hidden agreements. And for that I also apologize.

If this had been properly communicated by us, the strong reactions to Jos's post would not have been forthcoming. I thought it was totally inappropriate that suggestions were made that he should look for another job. Jos is a very honest auctioneer who we have known for years and who has his heart in the right place.

What is annoying is that the discussion took place precisely at the short moment when there was overlap in the holiday. René and me and we could not respond quickly.

What we are going to do is clearly communicate the agreement about larger lots to everyone and that we also differentiate per category. The general agreement is:

Items offered at the auction are in principle linked to items in the Catawiki catalog. If a lot contains a large number of items that cannot all be linked, the auctioneer can decide whether to place it anyway.

This agreement already works in practice for comics. Good solutions have been devised for a number of lots with items that are difficult to link. No additional agreements are required here.

Specifically for the stamp and coin auction, multiple items must be linked in that situation and that sufficient and clear photo material is available so that the buyer gets a good idea of what is offered. We will discuss this with effect from the next auction.

Tomorrow I will speak with the auctioneer of the book auction to see whether we need to make specific agreements there. I will come back to that.

Again, our apologies that we have not properly communicated this agreement to everyone. That could have saved a lot of grief and frustration.

Sorry Marco but either you haven't read the forum properly or you're running around the bush because I don't see a response anywhere about admitting items to the auction without bothering to add them to the catalog and that is I think 1 of the things at stake in the discussion

Sorry Marco maar of je hebt het forum niet goed gelezen of je draait om de hete brei heen want ik zie nergens een reactie over items tot de veiling toe laten zonder de moeite nemen om ze aan de catalogus toe te voegen en dat is volgens mij 1 van de dingen waar het om draait in de discussie

"Items die worden aangeboden op de veiling zijn in principe gekoppeld aan items in de Catawiki catalogus"

Met gekoppeld bedoel ik of gelinkt aan bestaande items in de catalogus, of aan een nieuw item dat nog niet in de catalogus is ingevoerd.

Specifiek voor de postzegel- en munten veiling geldt dat er in die situatie meerdere items moeten zijn gekoppeld

Ook hier gaat het of om links naar bestaande items in de catalogus, of om nieuwe items voor het geval ze nog niet in de catalogus staan. 

Sorry Marco but either you haven't read the forum properly or you're running around the bush because I don't see a comment anywhere about putting items up for auction without bothering to add them to the catalog and I think that's 1 of the issues at stake in the discussion

"Items that are offered for auction are in principle linked to items in the Catawiki catalog"

By linked I mean either linked to existing items in the catalog, or to a new item that has not yet been entered into the catalog.

Specifically for the stamp and coin auction, multiple items must be linked in that situation

Again, it's either links to existing items in the catalog, or new items in case they aren't in the catalog yet.

@Marco

So if I understand correctly, from now on there will no longer be items offered in the auction that are not in the catalog

So they must first be added to the catalog and something like lot 20 no longer occurs

@Marco,

Hope you had a nice holiday.

These 2 examples cited by me do not fall under the category '' too large lot to cover all missing items. in the Catawiki catalog ''

http://veiling.catawiki.nl / lots / 21249-the-netherlands-1999-surprise-stamps-in-complete-sheet-nvph-1824-1825

If you offer a sheet at auction you should in my opinion also enter it in the catawiki catalog, do not link to the loose stamp that is already in it a sheet is not a seal - it is a sheet, a new catwiki- item so

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857 -shares-50-different-most-france-and-belgium

And 50 French and Belgian shares ???? Are all these stocks already in the Catawiki catalog ???? 50 ... there are not 5,000 of them, is it ??

50 different most French and Belgian stocks in the quality crumple wad to brand new..how vague can you be ???? just put down '' a bag full of mainly Burgundian goodies '' that is equally meaningless.

Regardless of the discussion whether large lots should be linked to the Catawiki catalog, both of these items would have never been allowed in the auction like this (not even if the broad rules that the most of them did not know were applicable?)

PS .. I am the last person who would say that Jos has to leave (before he starts living his own life)

So if I understand correctly, from now on there will no longer be items offered in the auction that are not in the catalog

Then they must first be added to the catalog

Then I haven't explained it properly yet. For lots with only 1 or a number of items, there must always be a link to the catalog. Or to an existing item, or if the item is not yet in the catalog, to a new item to be added to the catalog.

In case it concerns a lot with a large number of items and where it is impossible to link / enter all items, a number of items must be linked / entered. This at the discretion of the auctioneer.

Define "impossible".

Marco, sorry hoor even doorzagen..:-)

 

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21249-nederland-1999-verrassingszegels-in-compleet-vel-nvph-1824-1825

Als je een vel aanbied op de veiling moet je hem naar mijn mening ook invoeren in de catawiki-catalogus niet linken aan de losse zegel die er al in staat een vel is geen zegel - het is een vel, een nieuw catwiki-item dus

Dit is 1 item en hij staat nog niet in catawiki-catalogus hij is gelinkt aan de losse zegel  De losse zegels is heel wat anders dan het velletje..hoe kan een veilingmeester daar overheen kijken (tuurlijk ongelukjes gebeuren maar het is op zijn minst heel slordig)

 

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857-aandelen-50-verschillende-meest-frankrijk-en-belgi

En 50 Franse en Belgische aandelen???? Staan al deze aandelen al in de Catawikicatalogus???? 50 ...het zijn er toch geen 5.000??

50 verschillende meest Franse en Belgische aandelen in de kwaliteit verfrommelt propje tot gloednieuw..hoe vaag kun je zijn???? zet dan gewoon neer ''een zak vol voornamelijk Bourgondisch lekkers'' dat is netzo niets zeggend.

Iemand die 200 FDC's inbrengt linkt ze wel allemaal aan de catalogus waarom zijn dan 50 aandelen teveel? staan zij allemaal wel in de catawiki-catalogus en dan de kompleet kansloze kwaliteitsomschrijving...wat is dat? 50 onbekende aandelen van onbekende kwaliteit? dat is toch niet serieus..en totaal Catawiki-onwaardig...Bulk-partijen zijn heel interresant maar 50 stuks en dan op deze 'ik heb er eigenlijk helemaal geen zin-in manier' dat hoort toch echt thuis op marktplaats naar mijn mening. Omschrijving kansloos, bijgeleverde foto (1 foto van een stapeltje???) nog kanslozer :-(

En wat moet de inbrenger van de 200 FDC's denken??? als hij ziet dat zijn collega het er zich zo makkelijk vanaf maakt....Bulk na mijn mening prima (graag zelfs) maar wel de kwaliteit van de aangboden bulkartiekelen waarborgen 50 onbekende aandelen van een onbekende kwaliteit is te makkelijk, te cata-onwaardig (daar hebben we marktplaats voor)

Ik zou graag een inhoudelijk mening van jouw of Jos willen betreffende deze 2 kavels

Marco, sorry to see through ..:-)

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21249-nederland-1999-verrassingszegels-in-compleet-vel-nvph-1824-1825

In my opinion, if you offer a sheet at the auction, you should also enter it in the catawiki catalog, not link it to the loose stamp that is already there, a sheet is not a stamp - it is a sheet, so a new catwiki item

This is 1 item and it is not yet in the catawiki catalog it is linked to the loose stamp The loose stamps is very different from the sheet.. how can an auctioneer overlook that (of course accidents happen but it is at least very messy)

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857-aandelen-50-differente-most-frankrijk-en-belgi

And 50 French and Belgian shares???? Are all these stocks already in the Catawiki catalog???? 50 ...there aren't 5,000, are they??

50 different mostly French and Belgian stocks in the quality crumpled wad to brand new..how vague can you be???? then just put down ''a bag full of mainly Burgundian goodies'' that is just as meaningless.

Someone who brings in 200 FDCs links them all to the catalog, why are 50 shares too much? are they all in the catawiki catalog and then the completely hopeless quality description... what is that? 50 unknown stocks of unknown quality? that is not serious...and totally unworthy of Catawiki...Bulk lots are very interesting but 50 pieces and then in this 'I really don't feel like it at all' way that really belongs on marketplace in my opinion . Description no chance, enclosed photo (1 photo of a stack???) even less chance :-(

And what should the contributor of the 200 FDCs think??? when he sees that his colleague makes it so easy....Bulk in my opinion fine (in fact, please) but guaranteeing the quality of the bulk items offered 50 unknown shares of an unknown quality is too easy, too cata-unworthy ( we have a marketplace for that )

I would like a substantive opinion from you or Jos regarding these 2 lots

@Sinbad: Hope you had a nice holiday.

Very good. I immediately wanted to go on holiday again yesterday evening :-)

@Sinbad: I do not think these 2 examples mentioned by me fall under the category "too large lot to enter all missing items in the Catawiki catalog": http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21249-nederland-1999-verrassingszegels-in-compleet -vel-nvph-1824-1825

If you offer a sheet at auction you should in my opinion also enter it in the catawiki catalog, do not link to the loose stamp that is already in it a sheet is not a seal - it is a sheet, a new catwiki- item so

I have spoken about this with Jos. This is a strange case as the sheet is never intended to be spent as a sheet (see also the description). It was probably given to someone once as a business gift. That is why it was decided not to include it in the catalog. But you can of course disagree about this.

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/21857 -shares-50-different-most-france-and-belgium

And 50 French and Belgian shares ???? Are all these stocks already in the Catawiki catalog ???? 50 ... there are not 5,000 of them, is it ??

I also talked about this with Jos. Next time, several items must be entered and linked.