Stamps/Unknown vertical print7 messages

Recently introduced http: // www.catawiki.nl/catalogus/postzegels/countries-areas/turkey/5324551-war-overprint-op- issue-1913?area=39846b426b6b1211419eeeb9c2758ac13cd93387

The imprint is in various catalogs and on the internet always horizontal on the stamps of this series. This stamp has been entered as Michel # 603, but that stamp also has the horizontal overprint.

Who has a reference for the vertical overprint on these stamps with the image of the new post office?

De verticale rode of zwarte opdruk bestaat volgens Y&T voor volgende zegels van 1913:

5 pa bister (Catawiki nr. 3778463)

10 pa groen (Catawiki nr. 2180417)

10 pa groen (Catawiki nr. 2180437)

20 pa roze (Catawiki nr. 2846283)

1 pi ultramarijn (Catawiki nr. 1498883)

1 pi ultramarijn (Catawiki nr. 2180445)

2 pi leikleurig (Catawiki nr. 2180429)

2 pi leikleurig (Catawiki nr. ---)

5 pi bruinviolet (Catawiki nr. 3778649)

10 pi vermiljoen (Catawiki nr. 3779033)

N.B. Het item met zwarte verticale opdruk Catawiki nr.  3779033 werd door jezelf ingevoerd in 2011!? ...wat jouw bewering ten zeerste relativeert.

The vertical red or black overprint exists according to Y&T for the following stamps from 1913:

5 pa bistre (Catawiki no. 3778463 )

10 pa green (Catawiki no. 2180417 )

10 pa green (Catawiki no. 2180437 )

20 pa pink (Catawiki no. 2846283 )

1 pi ultramarine (Catawiki no. 1498883 )

1 pi ultramarine (Catawiki no. 2180445 )

2 pi slate colored (Catawiki no. 2180429 )

2 pi slate colored (Catawiki nr. ---)

5 pi brown violet (Catawiki no. 3778649 )

10 pi vermilion (Catawiki no. 3779033 )

NB The item with black vertical print Catawiki no. 3779033 was imported by yourself in 2011!? ...which greatly puts your claim into perspective.

Dear Tapir,

The Y & amp; T catalog calls the stamps # 544- # 553 Timbres-poste de 1913 (Surcharge vertical). So far it seems that you are right. Unfortunately, Y & amp; T does not show images of the so-called vertical overprint, nor does it explain what they mean by vertical. Moreover, Y & amp; T only knows the vertical but no horizontal overprint on the 1913 stamps.

All catalogs known to me do not show a picture of the overprint on 1913 stamps, except for the Turkish Isfila catalog. On the internet, images of the horizontal overprint can be seen at http: // colnect.com/en/stamps/list/page/13/year/1917/country/8047-Turkey

Check out this last link to see real images of the horizontal print and then agree with me that Y & amp; T is wrong with its 'Surcharge vertical'.

So the problem remains: the now introduced stamp with vertical overprint is an anomaly.

As a reference I have entered the entire series in CW, all with horizontal overprint: http://www.catawiki.nl/catalogus/postzegels/countries-areas/turkije/5333407-war-overdruk-op-issatie-1913

Addition: In the Scott catalog I found an image for Sc # 536 (= Mi # 604) with a horizontal print on the 1913 stamps for foreign use.

Je draait de zaken om:

De "horizontale" opdruk is in het begin van de uitgiften afgebeeld in de catalogussen Y&T en StanleyGibbons als volgt:

zie afbeelding 2 van Catawiki nr. 5324551.

Bijkomende uitleg bij Y&T:

"La surcharge porte 1332 et P.T.T. (Postes, Télégraphes, Téléphones)".

Horizontale opdruk = horizontaal staande tekst, normaal leesbaar.

Verticale opdruk = verticaal staande tekst, leesbaar van boven naar onder.

Buiten deze twee richtingen zijn er theoretisch nog twee andere mogelijke richtingen:

Verticale opdruk = verticaal staande tekst, leesbaar van onder naar boven

Horizontale opdruk = horizontaal staande tekst, normaal kopstaand

De voorbeelden die je aanhaalt van Colnect zijn dus verticale opdrukken.

Interessant zou zijn om te weten:

1) hoe de opdrukken op de zegels werden gezet: met de hand of mechanisch (te vergelijken met de voorafstempelingen in België die beide systemen kende: zie de achtergrondinfo bij deze items);

2)  of de opdrukken slechts in 2 richtingen

Tot slot: Y&T schijnt te beweren dat enkel de zegels van 1913 verticale opdrukken heeft (wat door de voorbeelden van Colnect bevestigd wordt), maar Catawiki nr. 5324551 bewijst het tegendeel.

Het laatste woord is dus nog niet gezegd...

You turn things around:

The "horizontal" overprint is depicted early in the issues in the Y&T and StanleyGibbons catalogs as follows:

see image 2 of Catawiki no. 5324551 .

Additional explanation at Y&T:

"La surcharge porte 1332 et PTT (Postes, Télégraphes, Téléphones)".

Horizontal overprint = horizontal text, normally readable .

Vertical overprint = vertical text, readable from top to bottom .

Besides these two directions, there are theoretically two other possible directions:

Vertical overprint = vertical text, readable from bottom to top

Horizontal print = horizontal text, normally upside down

The examples you cite from Colnect are therefore vertical prints.

Would be interesting to know:

1) how the overprints were put on the stamps: by hand or mechanically (comparable to the pre-cancellations in Belgium that both systems had: see the background information for these items);

2) or the imprints only in 2 directions

Finally, Y&T seems to claim that only the 1913 stamps have vertical overprints (which is confirmed by the Colnect examples), but Catawiki no. 5324551 proves otherwise.

The last word has not yet been said...

Tapir thanks for your explanation and sorry for the mix-up of horizontal and vertical.

In conclusion: all overprints from 1917 are horizontal, except for the stamps from 1913, which are vertical; Y & amp; T, Scott and my own series added to CW agree on that.

The stamp where I transferred the question (CW no. 5324551 ) is a very big exception. Possibilities are either incorrectly stamped by hand or a forgery ???

So the question remains whether there is someone who can provide further information about this stamp.