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Helv
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April 13, 2024 09:35
Collectioneur
One of the points mentioned during the discussion about the change from Issue to Issue group is adjusting the default order in which stamps are displayed.

Question 1: Should the default sorting be adjusted?
Current sorting: Issue group
Possible alternative: Emission date stamp (low-high)

Question 2:
When switching between "Standard" and "All" you automatically return to the default. Cannot switch and maintain the set setting.


Edit: Under point 1 I think we should mainly assume a new user. What does this expect? What comes across best?
Experienced users undoubtedly already have LD including favorite settings in their Favorites.
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April 13, 2024 10:04
The current basic sorting (which was developed during the transition from Series to Issue) seems to me to be the most efficient.

Then you will see the things that belong together, if of course the item shows sufficient respect with regard to the Issue field (now 'Issue group').
As an administrator, with this sorting you can immediately see where things are going wrong (what does not appear in its right place).
Thanks to the 'Issue' technology, you can often get dozens of items immediately in their right place with one adjustment in one item.

Date of issue (month and year) are still far too incomplete (this is being worked on every day, but there are approximately 850,000 items in the section). Merely sorting on that basis means that everything starts to get jumbled up. And then you have to go through dozens of items and adjust them one by one to get things in order.
That is precisely what Issuance has the ingenious solution for, far beyond the 'Issue' overview screen.
Hopefully you know what that is...

Anyone who likes to see them criss-cross and finds it easy to make the necessary adjustments this way can always opt for sorting by emission date.
Personally, I find it easier to make all those adjustments if things settle into a reasonable place after one adjustment. You can go over them more easily.
I think so both as a user and as an administrator.

As a manager, I try to work structurally, rationally and completely. After adjustment, an item is also fully reviewed, so that other administrators can also see that: it has been checked. And the friends in the same issue are nicely included in the adjustment and review process.
Still, it's useful if they look nice together, and if one is out of sync, you can recognize that as a signal that something is wrong with it.
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Helv
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April 13, 2024 10:10
Raoul62 There is no discussion that sorting by Issue group is a powerful tool. But will this be immediately noticed by a new user who calmly leafs through one hand and sees the stamps of 2009 under 2004, or does not see those stamps under 2009?

For my own use it doesn't matter, I have both options "under the button".
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April 13, 2024 12:45
In the earlier discussion I also indicated in one of my messages that it does not seem illogical to me to adjust the standard order. I understand the risk that Helv portrays here.

It is true that 'issue group' is a powerful tool for seeing what belongs together, as Raoul62 has already sufficiently indicated. But to use powerful resources appropriately and efficiently, you have to be strong yourself. Sorting according to emission date is then more comprehensible and simpler.

I formulate it conditionally here, I do not have a monopoly on the truth. But as I wrote in my first message in this discussion (from April 3): just because an adjustment makes the catalog better in itself does not mean that it also improves performance for the average collector/customer. We have (too) little insight into who all those new users (customers) of LD are. If they are mainly experienced collectors, sorting by issue group will deepen the use of the catalogue. However, if they are young people or collectors who have just started, who want to manage and expand their modest collection here, the complexity can also be a deterrent. That is a bit of a black box, so it is difficult for us to relate to it.

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April 13, 2024 13:46
My experience is that new users (who sometimes go too far) have no idea what issuance is, but that it could easily be explained, after which those users were amazed. So powerful and easy to explain.
As more and more was disguised, I could no longer explain it easily, and it no longer dawned on me.

The simplest explanation is: click on 'Issue' in the detail of an item and see what you get. The image tells more than you could describe in 10 pages.
And that (at least most of them) got wildly excited about it!

For FDC and MK collectors who added, after which they turned out to be duplicates: find a stamp that appears on it, click on 'issue' (now 'issue group') and see if that FDC or MK is already listed. There is a good chance that you will add fewer doubles. And it works!
Especially because when searching for a stamp you have the fantastic filter option by (additional) nominal value.

That group is also usually amazed (speechless) by the power that that one field has.

It's something that sets LD apart from other catalogs. Something that has strength behind it.
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April 13, 2024 13:53
The sorting by Stamp Emission Date is set to these consecutive sorts:
a) Year
b) Month
c) Day
d) Issuance group
e) Serial number in Issue

If, as you say, the Month and Day are not always filled in, I think it would be better not to set the Emission Date stamp as the default sorting.

I will add Helv's request to keep the sorting unchanged while switching between Standard and All on the wishlist.

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April 13, 2024 15:22
If, as you say, the Month and Day are not always filled in, I think it would be better not to set the Emission Date stamp as the default sorting.
I think it's important, otherwise you won't get a parallel with the catalogues
Cq numbers,
The month and day are still entered according to the catalogue.
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az60
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April 13, 2024 16:23
I think it's important, otherwise you won't get a parallel with the catalogues
If you want to get it parallel with the catalogs, then you're better off using a different sort order. Naturally depending on the desired catalogue. But you can put the stamps in order of Yvert, Michel, Scott, Stanley Gibbons and the local catalogue. Plenty of choice. I wouldn't make that the standard again, because everyone will make their own choice. But here too, a lot of data (catalogue numbers) has not been completed, so it loses its power. It would be ideal if everyone could set their own preference. I don't know if that is technically feasible.
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April 13, 2024 16:53
It would be ideal if everyone could set their own preference.
That's how it is. If not with a cookie, just make a shortcut yourself, small effort, great fun/convenience.
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April 13, 2024 17:08
Indeed, plenty of choice.
If it really has to be shoved down your throat (default sorting), then please default to Michel number. Also for the Netherlands. After all, 99% of the world does not have an NVPH, more than a third does have a Michel.
Just under a third works with Yvert. Could also become the default sorting.
The difference is that the Michel field is by far the most filled in (much more than the day and month of issue). Even the Yvert catalog number has been filled in more than the year and month of issue.
You place a default on a field that is used most often.

With Issue you can kill two birds with one stone and solve the problem (day and month not entered) in many cases. Because the programming checks the entire issue to see if a month and day have not been entered somewhere.
The result is that in many areas each year the items are placed in a nice logical order. Even the blocks and sheets fit neatly into place. What you no longer get with a poor sorting on an insufficiently filled in field.


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April 13, 2024 17:27
Concrete example. Look and compare.
Switzerland 1980. Sorted by the standard (issue group) where everything is neatly presented in chronological order, compared to sorted by 'Emission date'. What a horror... it's all criss-crossed.
With the standard, there is one item somewhere in every issue (often even an FDC) that ensures that all those items without year and month are still in that order.
How did that happen? For > 85% of the items, the month and day are not filled in. Well, it's impossible to sort neatly with that.

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April 13, 2024 20:56
Helv
Just under 3 years ago, @postmaster, among others, set the default sorting to 'Issue'. Why the sudden change from the corner of the super managers?

See message on the forum from Collectioneur Collectioneur from May 11, 2021 09:27
...
The test by the administrators turned out well and that is why we have made this new way of sorting the standard way of sorting.

In line with the above, we are going to change the name Series to Issue. We see that the term Series currently causes confusion with the type Series. This is also more in line with what is a common international name.
We set the sorting order to Issue by default.

Have fun with this,

Daan & Tammo
...

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April 13, 2024 20:58
Tens, the @ doesn't work anymore... like with disappeared users... is something going on or changed?
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Helv
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April 14, 2024 12:27
Just under 3 years ago, @postmaster, among others, set the default sorting to 'Issue'. Why the sudden change from the corner of the super managers?
Read my first message. The answer is there.

With [limited issue] this choice is also more obvious in my opinion than for "Issue group", once the dates have been entered.
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April 14, 2024 13:33
There has never been anything called 'limited release'. It was Issue. It was only treated as limited by a select group for some obscure reason.
In my opinion, a complicated sorting routine such as with 'Issue' (which also has its mark far beyond the 'group') could never have been developed for issues that were composed of 1 item (and that is what it eventually started to look like).
Fortunately, that misconception has now been dispelled, including the addition of 'group' to the name. In essence, the 'new' description/definition has not changed the original Issue concept. It is now only clearly explained and described.

Due to the recent structural and systematic review (adjustment and complete review) of the FDCs, everything could be shown logically and chronologically in almost every overview, through this sorting, in every screen with a selection. At FDC, the date can be seen legibly on the image (as long as a good quality image is available), so you can always enter the month and day there (even as a completely inexperienced collector who knows nothing about philately). Such an item then pulls the entire issue to its rightful place in each overview (selection).

Many dates are completed every day (month and day), but far too many are still left blank. You cannot build on it, nor sort with it. It might happen someday.
By using the technology to involve items from a broader context (Issuing group) and only then sorting them by date, you can cover almost everything. Obviously not for issues that consist of only one item, where the issue date is not completely filled in (month and day are missing).

As for the other problem, I'm glad you found it now too.


I recently saw that you can switch in an issue. There you can really switch between 'Standard' and 'All'. Which is sometimes very useful.
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az60
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April 14, 2024 18:04
Such an item then pulls the entire issue to its rightful place in each overview (selection).
Unfortunately, in your dreams. I think you missed a few messages (especially from Charles. He has already indicated a few times that, based on the issue gallery, strange things happen regarding the order. Example, the issue group 1956 Animals :
The issue group contains stamps that were issued in 1956 and 1958. But if I request the issues of Indonesia from 1957 onwards , I see stamps from the issue group 1956 Animals at the top, namely the stamps that were issued in 1958. That in itself is illogical, but it can be explained, because the issue groups are in order and it is not surprising that in 1957 the issue group that starts with 1956 is at the top. The 1956 Animals issue group runs (from 1956) up to and including 1958 and so the gallery shows the 1956 Animals issue group in both years, but also in all the years in between. That becomes fun with issue groups that, for example, cover a period of 10 years or longer. But you call that a rightful place in every overview.
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April 14, 2024 19:13
az60
'Order'.
Of course they top those from 1958.
The 'standard sort' starts with issue group .
And '56 is therefore first in that 'display'.
Change to 'year low-high'.
And it starts with 1957...
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April 14, 2024 19:27
The 'standard sort' starts with issue group .

If you had read everything buizer, you would have known that it was not just about the so-called issue group. But also about the general gallery overview. Something the average collector looks at first.
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April 14, 2024 19:45
Charles1971
Then explain to me what 'General gallery overview' is?
I just click on the link in the message; so on 'Indonesia from 1957'.
And then I simply change 'Issue group' to 'Year low-high' via the arrow at the top right.
And whether I choose left default or everything doesn't matter.
It always 'starts' with the year 1957'.
That's what I call taking advantage of the opportunities that are offered.


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April 14, 2024 19:59
I have already explained that problem several times buizer . I really don't feel like explaining that again. If you tour around LD, Stamps more often, as a stamp collector, you will automatically come across this.
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April 14, 2024 20:14
A problem for those who don't get it, okay. With a little good will and a broader view of a digital catalogue, anyone can learn and understand it after some practice.
I'm amazed when experienced users don't understand it, but are able to cut down an issue into ten partial issues, each containing one item.
And should a new user understand something about that? That's not explained to you at all.
Sometimes I think it would be better to offer a fixed presentation in PDF as a catalogue. Fixed. Always and everywhere the same for everyone. The administrators can then create in MS Word and then save it in PDF.
A new paper catalogue, but one to be shown on the screen.
Man man man

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