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  • March 10, 2024 01:17
March 10, 2024 01:17
Buying stamped (better) stamps without a photo makes no sense.
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  • 17 messages
  • March 10, 2024 10:20
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March 10, 2024 10:20
I completely agree, I never buy a stamp without a photo or scan. I also sell a lot of stamped stamps, but always make a scan, photo of the stamp, you must be able to see what you are buying, unfortunately that is all too much work for many sellers.
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  • 184 messages
  • March 11, 2024 11:58
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March 11, 2024 11:58
Allemagne, totally agree. This also applies to MNH and unused stamps. If you come across many suppliers of 'MNH with sticker' on well-known worldwide sites, you know that you want to see the front and back of stamps. And the quality determines the price. Catalogs price perfect stamps sold by merchants with fees.
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  • 198 messages
  • March 11, 2024 15:07
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March 11, 2024 15:07
Esquerdo never the catalog quotation is link to the price , all is about market law supply and demand. it can be up to 30 % for best value usually 15 % or 30 % for perfect state stamps. 

NEVER in 2024 the catalog price will match the retail price it is far less for a perfect stamp.

If the stamp have a default it is between 5 % and 10 % of the retail price.
So a 100 €  stamps catalog value is 20 € perfect condition and 5 € with a default.

A stamps with catalog value of 1000 € you can find it in perfect state for 200 € to 300 € and with a default between 50 € to 100 €.
  • 184 messages
  • March 11, 2024 15:26
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March 11, 2024 15:26
I did not say they are market prices. They are dealer's prices for perfect stamps and then even dealers with overhead. Also, professional sellers and auction houses are all too happy to quote catalogue prices.

Also, you might want to read the introduction to the Stanley Gibbons catalogues. It clearly states those are the prices Stanley Gibbons (SG) will offer you the stamps at if available.With the repeated financial problems at SG you might think they never sell anything, but they do.

There also are enough british dealers that charge over the catalogue price when it is for mounted unused and they offer unmounted mint.

Very fine four-margined Penny Blacks, in recent years, have regularly beat full catalogue price at auction. 

So 'never,' simply, is untrue.

Also, the percentages you quote are regularly mentioned but proven untrue as well. For pre-1940 unmounted stamps, you are having an excellent day if you get anything at 20% on Catawiki, before their 9% fees. Some sellers that tend to offer high quality stamps sell at 30-40%.

Quite a lot of Spainis stamps in the higher price classes that are 'lujo' are extremely difficult to find on offer for less than 35-40% of the prices for 'bien centrado' in the Edifil.

The 5-10% myth is for unchecked large accummulations that have no notable quality material. The buyer is gambling on finding anything interesting. To turn it around requires a lot of labour and time. 
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  • March 11, 2024 16:45
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March 11, 2024 16:45
Frenchstamps Esquerdo
And when push comes to shove, it is still the seller who determines the sales price . And no one else.
With the exception of auctions.
But there will be a minimum price for valuable stamps.
And can someone please explain to me what the difference is between a list value and a sales price.
Isn't it usually the case that the catalog value is used to determine the sales price in many cases?
And look at reality.
How many stamps are actually sold at the catalog value stated in the catalogues?
Assuming that the stamps and their condition are correctly described when sold?
And the key question that is not answered anywhere is: what do (the authors and experts ) base the paper catalogs on to determine those values?
And how do you determine a price?
The American who wants a regular Belgian postage stamp non-prior of 1.46.
There is almost no other option than to visit online shops.
They can then safely ask for more than the value.
And then we don't even mention the shipping costs.
It doesn't hurt to put things into perspective every now and then...

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  • 198 messages
  • March 11, 2024 18:43
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March 11, 2024 18:43
buizer Esquerdo 

I buy valuable stamps in VSO and in Auction, not to Catawiki I got other sources and I Never paid over 30 % for 1849 to 1853 no default 4 beautiful marging. And never over 20 % for French mint MNH stamps.

Same for GB, Germany , Dutch , Spain stamps never over 20 % in top quality.

Of course for stamps with exceptional condition like classical cut with neighbourhoods stamps you will pay over catalog value and to find them is very difficult and they are very scarce.

Now if you miss a stamp in a serie even very modern stamps  like 1980 you should be able to pay full price and over on an online shop. But it is yiur choice as usually a seller prefer to sell only series.

This is the seller that set the price not the catalog, a list price is the official price list of a stamp dealer that can apply or not a discount for big orders… nothing to do with a catalog price that is just a value.

 
On LD you see many differences in selling prices , the reason is that some seller get the same stamps in bulk so it is a discount price but even if nobody want it you will never sell it.

How expert set a value for a stamps : usually for old stamps the value doesn’t change as it was set decade ago when the market with more collectors than now.

Catalog prices stay useful as they are only if you don’t buy stamps but swap stamps with other collectors.


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  • March 11, 2024 19:11
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March 11, 2024 19:11
Frenchstamps
But how is that value determined in the paper catalogues?
By those experts who draw up/publish the catalogues...?
I don't read that anywhere.
And if those values sometimes differ by up to 50%...
Let the experts explain that...
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  • March 11, 2024 19:25
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March 11, 2024 19:25
buizer Stamps catalogs like SG , Yvert are not independents catalogs are they are own by very big stamps dealers. Anyway at the beginning of the philately they were not called catalogs but price lists.

Let’s think about it…..

Catalog prices are not important at all , if we use a catalog it is for true quality informations and that they try to do the work to list all stamps issues included the newest.
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  • March 11, 2024 19:48
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March 11, 2024 19:48
Frenchstamps
List prices not important...?
Isn't that 'thing' you use to look up stamps called a catalog and not a price list?
And don't they talk about catalog values there?
And stamp dealers who sit behind a catalog only do so for their wallets...
CTO and inflated prices and the like.
Then market prices seem more objective to me than all those paper catalogues.
The advantage of an online catalog is that you can quickly adjust it.
They will change a paper every other year at most.
If they change it at all.
Often just the 'news' included.
And you're done.
.
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  • March 11, 2024 20:31
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March 11, 2024 20:31
buizer At the end I agree with you market prices seem more objective

Now each dealer is free to set what he want as price and for sure he will sell some  stamps. 
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  • March 11, 2024 21:50
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March 11, 2024 21:50
Frenchstamps
And then you at least have an idea of what something will cost if you buy it.
Because in the end, that's what a sale is always about: the money.
And you always have the two extremes.
The buyer wants it as cheaply as possible regardless of the " real " value.
And the seller wants to earn as much as possible from it; also regardless of the " real" value.
Supply and demand also play a role in this.
Everyone in Belgium is probably looking for the reverse Dendermonde.
A collector will most likely never sell it.
And it will be difficult for a stamp dealer to acquire them.
Or it would have to be in the event of a death because heirs have no interest in philately and more in money.
And then the catalog value of 100,000 euros is appropriate.
Because for the average collector, that stamp is certainly heaven...

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  • 184 messages
  • March 12, 2024 18:47
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March 12, 2024 18:47
The literal meaning of 'catalogue' is an 'ordered list of names.'

In the trade, the catalog is an overview of the merchandise offered, often with the price at which it is offered.

A market price is a price at which supply and demand are in equilibrium in a sufficiently liquid and transparent market between parties who have a free hand.

In that respect, a catalog is indeed a price list. Airbus has a catalog of aircraft that the company offers at a list price. If you order an Airbus 320Neo you will probably pay full price. If you order 20 and take an option on 40 others, you will probably be able to negotiate a significant discount: you only have to cover fixed costs once.

At the other end, the first market price for a stamp has yet to be established. Taxes and tariffs do not make an auction a transparent market. Even without such rates, the auction price is usually not a market price, because most reputable auctions also charge 20%+ to both parties. In addition, stamps are rarely perfect substitutes because the condition of the stamps varies greatly.

At Schiphol you pay €3.75 for a bottle of cola, which costs €1.75 at the Jumbo in the city. I doubt that many people would dare to say that €3.75 is the market price for a bottle of Coke. And those bottles of coke are perfect substitutes. But that is where supply and demand come together.

When it comes to catalogues, Stanley Gibbons are certainly price lists. By the way, you not only buy stamps there, but also guarantees. If at any time you discover that the stamp purchased from Stanley Gibbons has not been properly identified, you will get your money back (let's hope they still exist). You will almost certainly lose your money on Ebay and Delcampe.

The Scott catalog started out that way, but is owned by Amos Media, which requests asking prices from dealers. Only a few people at Amos Media seem to know which dealers they are and how they determine the list price. The NVPH catalog and many other catalogs known to stamp collectors usually work in the same way. And what those traders who report a price end up selling at isn't necessarily the price they quoted.

And indeed, the list prices are often very high. You can buy the vast majority of stamps, even of good quality, much cheaper.
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  • March 12, 2024 20:44
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March 12, 2024 20:44
Esquerdo
You have to name it correctly.
On LastDodo you have the revenue per shop and the average of an item.
The catalog value is then determined by a range of factors (demand, supply, sales prices elsewhere, proceeds at auctions, etc.).
And it is always adaptable.
In practice, it will not always be adjusted...
In my opinion, these averages are nothing more than an indication/aid.
And ... one important matter is constantly being ignored here.
Everything is focused on the '73 categories.'
And Stamps is precisely a section where this may not be doing as well.
Due to matters inherent/specific to stamps.
Such as stamped and CTO.
Do you want a "real" average?
Then you take everything into account.
So the average of that colo bottle at the airport, supermarket, gas station, café, sports club, restaurant.
In other words, the average cost price of all providers.
So also the auctions. And Professional sellers. And Private sellers
And for example, you will only be able to buy certain items at an auction.
With the associated costs.

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  • 198 messages
  • March 13, 2024 06:18
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March 13, 2024 06:18
buizer more and more I think that collecting stamps is a waste of money so retailers can apply the price they want and the catalog list silly prices at the end you resale most collections for peanuts.

I don’t buy anymore. My monthly budget for stamps in 5 years go from 200 € per months to 20 € in February 2024 and now it will be 0 € yes ZERO euros now I collect just photos of stamps that is free and same pleasure.

I prefer to enjoy life traveling a bit more and going out with friends, stamps are only ink and paper out of fashion. Life is too short to pay silly price for a tiny paper with ink.
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  • March 13, 2024 17:32
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March 13, 2024 17:32
Frenchstamps
Traveling and going out also costs money.
Where does that glass of wine ultimately end up?
And without photos or something like that, you have no tangible/visible memory of that trip...
Let everyone decide for themselves, make their own choices.
And I don't think it can hurt to put things into perspective every now and then.
Because there are several factors that play a role...

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  • March 13, 2024 18:44
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March 13, 2024 18:44
buizer it is my own personal choice to enjoy life.

I respect other freedom to do what they want.
  • 184 messages
  • March 14, 2024 09:12
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March 14, 2024 09:12
buizer, if you stand with one foot in a bucket of water at 150 C and the other in a bucket of water (ice) at -100 C, you are on average standing in a pleasant foot bath of 25 C, but you don't walk anymore after that. 'Average' has no information value if you don't know the underlying distribution.

Catalogs do not reflect average sales or offer prices. Market prices are also not averages of prices of heterogeneous products in monopolies, oligopolies and markets under perfect competition.

The average of a circulated stamp with an ugly sticker, missing perforation teeth, rust spots and paper thinning and a circulated stamp in perfect condition without a trace of a sticker is a completely meaningless number.

The catalog value is then determined by a range of factors (demand, supply, sales prices elsewhere, proceeds at auctions, etc.).

Although suppliers will take such things into account when determining their asking price, that is not how most catalogs are created. Stamp catalogs have no intention of giving a price that applies to a stamp with an ugly sticker, missing perforation teeth, rust spots and paper thinning.
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  • March 14, 2024 09:56
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March 14, 2024 09:56
Esquerdo buizer 
stamp with an ugly sticker, missing perforation teeth, rust spots and paper thinning Follow these rules according to all collectors and stamp dealers buying collections :

Under catalog value of 10 € the real value is 0,00 € and better to put it at the bin, pro put each years thousand of them to dust bin, not serious to sell them on LD even for 0,01 €.

Catalog value between 10 € and up 100 € : 0,01 € to 0,10 € and if rust better to put to the bin, too dangerous to keep this stamps. Not serous to sell on LD stamps with rust without warning in description, advice if a seller on LD act like that put a negative assment and destroy the stamps with rust.

Catalog value between 100 € to 1000 € buy it only if it is at 1 % to 3 % of catalog value no more and for high catalog value try a rust treatment that cost money without guarantee. It is 

Advice avoid like p league all stamps with rust it will contaminate all your albums or keep them all in a separate album in a separate room far away of your other stamps.

Over 1000 € buy them 3 % of catalog price as a wait stamp in your collection. 

Better quality stamps with 2 defaults like 1 theet and 1 thin but good looking value under 100 € buy it between 0,01 € and no more that 3 % of catalog value.

If more that 2 theets or 3 are missing under 100 € count no more that 0,01 € even for a 100 € stamp catalog
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  • March 14, 2024 10:23
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March 14, 2024 10:23
It's great that one subject can change into a completely different one, causing the essence to be completely lost...
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  • 198 messages
  • March 14, 2024 12:37
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March 14, 2024 12:37
ApiSta is such a major problem that we had a talk like in life ? I hope that it will not be a big trouble that will be make your day a bad day ? Keep cool enjoy life the sun shine lol
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  • March 14, 2024 16:56
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March 14, 2024 16:56
Esquerdo
The returns from shops and averages on LD are only intended as information.
Just as the (catalog) values in catalogs are also information.
Aren't those clearly two different things?
Take #287059 as an example.
If you click open the item you will see Catalog value on the right.
And below that Revenues.
Is simply a tool for the collector/seller.
He does what he wants with it. Nothing left.
And stamps have their own "characteristics".
A brand new Hardcover comic costing 40.00 with a small scratch on it.
You can sell it for 30.00.
But I don't think you will get 75% of the value for 'MNH' stamps with a 'scratch' (or the like).


.

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  • 198 messages
  • March 14, 2024 18:30
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March 14, 2024 18:30
buizer Esquerdo for this stamp number 2 of Belgium like for the 1 of Belgium the quality is the big factor as it is a beautiful stamps that many collectors want in their collection.

Stats are completely false here as never you got one for 1 € the minimum for a very bad condition is 4 € and regularly 6 € , for one than you can put in a collection at least 16 to 20 € (still heavy cancel but not killer, small margins with one too tiny , no thin) 

It need to have a nice cancel in order to see the eyes of the king but the vast majority have heavy cancel so a nice one , beautiful light cancel and four margins it is around 40 €. What make a bit scarce Belgium Epaulettes 1 and 2 is the fact that really few have a light quality cancel. S in this case for Epaulettes be ready to pay 40 € not far away of 75 %.

The stats , averages prices on LD for 1 and 2 of Belgium mean nothing.

What Belgium stamp collector thinks about LD stats about Epaulettes stamps 1 and 2 of Belgium ? 

This is at least a very good example that the photo of the stamp is key to sell it and buy and don’t bother as seller or buyer about what you buy. Of course the description need to state if there are a paper default like a thin.

For such a stamp good photos, honest clear description are keys to ask the high price this stamp deserve.

Good idea to take this stamp as it is really the best example of why photos and clear description.






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  • March 14, 2024 18:45
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March 14, 2024 18:45
Frenchstamps
Read what it says Frenchstamps right.
It says LastDodo Shops Revenues.
Including the lowest sales price (1.00), the highest sales price (17.95) and the average sales price (9.26).
There is no indication of how much such a stamp is sold for elsewhere.
Then claim that this is incorrect; well that is incorrect...


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  • 198 messages
  • March 14, 2024 19:06
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March 14, 2024 19:06
buizer LastDodo Shops Revenues I can’t claim it is incorrect as I don’t know how really the calculation is done.

State that  one time a seller sold one in a very very bad state like nearly it is cut that only 1/3 of the stamp remain , someone buy it for 1 € it was the cheapest sale for a stamp that should go to the bin.  Now other stamps sold where in bad condition like too heavy cancellations sold for 6 € and other slightly better  sold 18 € and nobody sold a beautiful one at 40 € as nobody willing to buy it this price for quality even if it was a fair price or sellers on LD never propose this quality that sell around 40 € so the LastDodo Shops Revenues is true in itself.

Are you ok for this explanation ?  In clear LastDodo Shops Revenues is an image of what seller propose as quality . Technically it is right calculation. If I propose one of my top exemplar for this stamp in my LD shop asking 40 € are you ok to buy it ? If you buy it the highest price LastDodo Shops Revenues will be 40 €.

Do I make a mistake in my logical about LastDodo Shops Revenues calculation ?

If I ask you this is because I am not sure about how is made this calculation but it is the market price on LD only of what shop sold on LD , are you agree ? 
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