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  • 15 messages
  • January 02, 2024 15:03
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January 02, 2024 15:03
Good afternoon Rene ,
The date of birth does not go back further than 2019 and when saving the other data, the form switches to business and indicates that a company name is required.
Unfortunately, I was unable to fulfill my obligation and I assume that this will have no further consequences for my account :)

I also hope that Lastdodo indicates that these are used (margin) goods, so that the full turnover amount is not taxed

Yours sincerely,
Jan Appeldorn
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Rene
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January 02, 2024 15:19
Munthandel-Aurelius ,
As a first test, we have written to some users to complete the (legally required) DAC7 form. So you are one of them.
It may indeed be that there are still some teething problems.
Let's take a look. Thanks for reporting.

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  • 15 messages
  • January 02, 2024 15:31
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January 02, 2024 15:31
Rene a test message with the sentence "You have until January 25 to enter this information. If the information has not been entered by then, we will unfortunately have to close your shop and/or block your account. " doesn't seem very useful to me.

Don't get me wrong, happy to help.
Please let me know when it is ready and I will then submit the data.

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Rene
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  • January 02, 2024 15:35
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January 02, 2024 15:35
The form must then work indeed Munthandel-Aurelius
You're right.

But luckily we still have some time. At the end of this month we should report on sellers who were new to the platform in 2023 and made at least 30 sales or sold for more than 2,000 euros.
That is European law and unfortunately we cannot do anything about it.
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Rene
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  • January 02, 2024 17:02
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January 02, 2024 17:02
Munthandel-Aurelius ,

We think we've fixed the things you reported. Could you please try again?
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  • 15 messages
  • January 02, 2024 19:10
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January 02, 2024 19:10
Good evening!
It all seems to work, all fields are filled in and saved to LD.
Thank you very much for this.
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Rene
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  • January 02, 2024 19:18
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January 02, 2024 19:18
Great, thanks Munthandel-Aurelius !
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jogo
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  • January 03, 2024 12:14
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January 03, 2024 12:14
Just another comment in this context: the statistics show the 'total over 13 months' for the amount sold and the number of orders.
And the same amounts/numbers appear in the question for refilling the DAC7 data.
Either the number of months is incorrect in the statistics or incorrect ones are shown in the DAC7 form (upon further inspection I suspect that the totals of 13 months are used for 2023 - including what was sold in 2024).
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Rene
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January 03, 2024 12:35
jogo ,
I assume you received the link to the DAC7 form from someone who became a new user in 2023? Because we only have to report on these people at the end of this month and this form is currently only intended for them.
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jogo
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  • January 03, 2024 12:50
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January 03, 2024 12:50
You are right, it is about my wife's shop (jodebe). The note remains the same: the form contains figures regarding orders in 2024.
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Rene
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January 03, 2024 13:24
jogo ,
Okay clear. Then only your wife has to fill this in for her account. Indeed, there should only be something about 2023. Let's take a look.
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jogo
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  • January 03, 2024 14:28
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January 03, 2024 14:28
Oops, in my diligence I have already entered that information for myself (shop jogo)! When I clicked on the link for my wife, I ended up in my DAC7 form (I was logged in with my password at the time).
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Rene
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  • January 03, 2024 14:40
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January 03, 2024 14:40
Well, it is not the intention to do anything with the email from another account jogo
We'll see what we can do about it.
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  • 120 messages
  • January 03, 2024 16:36
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January 03, 2024 16:36
I notice a lot of resignation about this legislation; and then such a fuss because Lastdodo's rates increased slightly. This rule (which no one can change) will have much more consequences, especially with an exemption of barely EUR 2000 for one year. Those are peanuts, right? And mind you, these rules apply to all online platforms in the EU. So what you sell here is cumulated with what you sell on Catawiki, eBay, Bobbedoes, 2nd hand, etc... And we also know nothing about the consequences if, for example, one sells for 5000 EUR, because that depends on the personal situation. Maybe it's not that bad and I'm worrying about nothing, or maybe it's a painful situation.
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Rene
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  • January 03, 2024 16:48
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January 03, 2024 16:48
Jodieke

DAC7 says nothing about whether your income is taxed or not. That depends on your personal situation. The starting point remains whether you have purchased items with the aim of making a profit. In that case, you must declare this profit (not the turnover). If you have your own collection, like almost all LastDodo users, you will usually get less money for it when you sell it than you paid for it yourself. Then you don't make any profit. You do not have to report this to the Tax Authorities.

If your intention is to generate additional income through LastDodo and you are purchasing specifically for that purpose, then you are probably an online trader and you will need to declare any profits you make (unless they are still subject to certain exemptions).

That was already the case and it remains that way. The DAC7 legislation does not change this. And there is no specific exemption of 2,000 euros by DAC7 or anything like that.

I think that this new European law is mainly intended to enable large traders who operate internationally to check whether the stated turnover is somewhat correct.
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  • 120 messages
  • January 03, 2024 17:02
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January 03, 2024 17:02
OK. But the amount you received will still be transferred to taxes. I only sell my own material, or material from elderly people who can no longer do it themselves and have no children who are interested (I don't buy it, I sell it for them and pay them the sales price). And that group of people is getting bigger and bigger. How can I make your theory of selling your own material strong for tax purposes? And "do not report to the Tax Authorities", how does that work? It is the sales platforms that will forward the figures this year to the tax authorities of the country where the seller lives. How can I not report that? I don't have that chance, do I?
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Rene
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  • January 03, 2024 17:17
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January 03, 2024 17:17
Jodieke ,
Above certain thresholds (more than 2,000 euros in sales or 30 orders in a year), we must indeed provide the data (after the end of the calendar year), but that says nothing at all about whether or not you have to pay tax on it (it is no tax return). This is something that you may have to arrange yourself in your tax return if applicable, if you consciously trade for profit and make a profit. At most it is a means of control. Just as you also have to declare your salary income, even though the tax authorities already have control options for this.
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  • 199 messages
  • January 03, 2024 17:54
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January 03, 2024 17:54
Hi Rene I live in Brussels where all decisions are made for DAC7 and more to come with DAC8….

Some friends of mine at key Job in the EEC office and some are collectors too so I can only tell what happens.

First the spirit of DAC 7 was focus on collecting all VAT from all trading activities particularly online sellers that forget to declare part of the VAT particularly Marketplaces (big ones) and many professional hidden to act as a normal person not a pro . We know all by experience that pro buy a lot collectibles in cash to collectors…. at few % of the real value to sell it with high margin online and avoid taxes. Many professional do that not all of course.

The planning to come is that Marketplaces should be responsible in the future to collect the VAT. Very difficult for small ones this is why some marketplaces decided that all money transactions must be through a virtual wallet like Vinted for vintage clothes do with MangoPay.

This is what is the purpose BUT each country tax offices are free to set their rules. Usually the rule is that not to be taxes and pay social contributions you need to act like wisely.

So the limits of 30 or 20 sells per year (it is 20 in France, 30 and / or under 2000 € in NL and Belgium) is just a limit that the marketplaces must report to a big data system what you sales online. All data are analyse by AI and related to yiur other tax informations to decide if you are a professional (not declared as one) or not. The AI bring a red flag to your tax controler that will decide to control you.

What are the key factor , not so much if you did 30 or 100 sales or 1900 € or 4000 € (in Belgium you have nothing to declare if you sell your own collection in one go under 5000 €), but how many time and how many articles you got in your shop is one of the key factor to be fined and be taxes and pay like a professional all so ial heath contribution.

Like say Rene not to buy just to resale as some did on EBay …. this is an other key factors to have big problems 

So if you got in your shops in various marketplaces  30 000 stamps or comics and you do 500 sales cumulated here and on other marketplaces you will be nightly fined and pay big taxes. Of course they will evaluate also that all the time you spend selling is like a job if it is like 4 hours a day 5 days a week even if you are retired.

A Belgium guy sold on 2 marketplaces before DAC7 , 1000 comics book during a year , even if it was from his collection he was fined and had various taxes to pay for over 20 000 € , what change now that there are an automation including big data management , CRS exchange between countries and use of new Artificial Intelligence tools far more efficient than humans tax controller screening manually marketplaces.

You need to consider that to adapt yourself as sellers of your own collection.

If you want to sell your own big collection or doubles and are not professional and want to avoid big problems now the wiser is to do the following:

1) go to an famous auction house that will sell like 4500 € a part of your collection each year, I state a in real life Auction House not a marketplace (Catawiki is not an Auction House by tax office definition but a kind of marketplace so I am not talking of Catawiki) and sale smaller items between 10 € to 250 € in Lastdodo with a limited of itemm in a shop so VIP  or VIP+ is fit for that. Limit under 500 items to sale in a shop and no more than 100 sales per year. Sales no more than 100 stamps, comics, tea bag.

I suppose that @Rene will not be happy with what I state but this is true and DAC 7 is just now use not in the spirit of for what is was done but to be overused by tax offices to consider many collectors as having a professional activity even if not true.

It is very new and some cases need in the future to go to court to fix some boundaries but in the meantime there are no clrar rules for a tax officer to decide to tax you heavily.

Personally I sold a part of my collection for 2966 € last year 2023 , in 2024 I will sell an other part of my stamp collection with the same auction house in 2024 expecting perhaps 2200 € , the auction house pay VAT , taxes for me and it take me 1 hour a year to bring them my collection and I will go for a VIP shop in LD selling only few stamps between 20 €and up to 100  € per stamp so a small but valuable shop with 50. 0r 60 stamps with photos and good text that should be no more than 8 hours in a year to create the shop and no more than 4 hours per year  to manage the sales logistic. I will limit to 29 sales per years no more no less under 30 sales and/or 1200 € of sales and I will be happy and secure.

I will sale only to one Marketplace :  Lastdodo as the spirit to respect collectors is very import to me that what , to my opinion, what make the difference with other bigger collectors marketplaces. 

Here just my personal opinion not advices , everyone is free even to take  risks or not. To comply or not with DAC7 , personally I always like to comply 100 % and keep a good sleep.
  • 120 messages
  • January 03, 2024 19:30
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January 03, 2024 19:30
All very nice, but I am left with the question: how can I convince the tax authorities that I sell comics from collectors who can no longer do so themselves. These comics are also usually old and valuable and the prices therefore rise considerably. I am currently not selling anything until I have certainty. That story above of a EUR 20,000 fine goes against the fact that he sold his own comics. Incomprehensible. So I distinguish 3 types:
- people who visit fairs and the like or buy up collections to make a profit
- people who sell their own collection at their own pace
- people who sell (don't buy!) collections from third parties because they can no longer do it themselves. So I belong to that group. The advice of a tax specialist might be helpful here. I personally thought of a letter from the owner in which he certifies that he wants to sell his collection through me. I have account statements showing that I transfer the sums to the owner.
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Rene
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  • January 03, 2024 19:43
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January 03, 2024 19:43
The planning to come is that Marketplaces should be responsible in the future to collect the VAT. 

I think you are talking about marketplaces where the money is flowing through the platform. This is not the case at LastDodo, as buyers pay directly to sellers.


What are the key factor , not so much if you did 30 or 100 sales or 1900 € or 4000 € (in Belgium you have nothing to declare if you sell your own collection in one go under 5000 €), but how many time and how many articles you got in your shop is one of the key factor to be fined and be taxes

I find this a strange remark as the number of items in a shop has nothing to do with the profit you make or the intention of the seller. We have many collectors here on LastDodo with thousands of teabags, cigar bands, stamps etc. in their shops without having any intention to make profit, let alone to create an income out of their sales. 
The number of items in a shop is not something platforms have to report because of DAC7. We only have to report the revenue and the number of orders.


So if you got in your shops in various marketplaces  30 000 stamps or comics and you do 500 sales cumulated here and on other marketplaces you will be nightly fined and pay big taxes.

Once again, nothing changes in the tax rules regarding the situations in which you have to pay taxes. The number of items in a shop is not a relevant factor at all. Also the number of sales does not say anything by itself. Relevant is the intention of the seller (buying things especially to sell it for higher prices or being a collector selling out of your own collection) and if he or she makes a serious profit or not.


1) go to an famous auction house

I don't think it matters where you sell things. It matters what your intention is and if you create an income out of it. 


Sales no more than 100 stamps, comics, tea bag.

 but in the meantime there are no clrar rules for a tax officer to decide to tax you heavily.

I don't know why you want to scare people but there was and is tax legislation in every country that tells you when you have to pay taxes. And these tax laws don't change at all because of DAC7. 
If you sell 10.000 tea bags, cigar bands or stamps our of your collection for a couple of cents a piece, you really don't have to pay taxes.
  • 199 messages
  • January 03, 2024 19:52
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January 03, 2024 19:52
Jodieke if you sell on behalf of someone you need really to ask advice. It can be see as you do a professional activity like do professional acting on behalf of a collector.

Now if you do it to help your father , mother, uncle  too old or with disabilities just to help making no profit to my opinion (not an advice my opinion only) it can be considered as a non professional activity but tax wise common sense   about not too spend too much time , limit the number of sales … apply to you as it apply to the collector you sale on behalf.

If you do it for friends, collectors non members of your family you act as a professional seller and must be registered as and pay the taxes of professional sellers as do the professional sellers here. But again that my personal opinion

Being on intermediate being collectors and buyers is a job in Belgium if you invest money and time to do it , no need to buy to sell to be a professional as you deliver a service ? Nothing related specifically to DAC7 it was a classical tax issue before DAC7. 

I don’t say you are a professional if you do or intend to do it as I don’t know your personal situation , I know some collectors in clubs that help from time to time other to sell some collectibles but what is important si : time to time

But other here can state other opinion that mine. 
Rene
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January 03, 2024 19:54
- people who sell (don't buy!) collections from third parties because they can no longer do it themselves. So I belong to that group.

Jodieke, If you do that as a kind of volunteer work, I don't think you have to pay taxes on it. I would simply record the agreements with the owners of those collections. For example, if you ask an hourly rate for it, things may be different. The normal tax rules apply, as they also apply if you do other work for an hourly rate. But again, that is separate from DAC7.
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  • 199 messages
  • January 03, 2024 20:13
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January 03, 2024 20:13
Rene I don’t want to scare anybody

Of course for the VAT future implementation that doesn’t concern LastDodo as the money doesn’t flow through the plateform it s apply to Vinted model for example. It is the idea of VAT at the beginning of DAC7 it was to explain.

I think that I will stop to write about DAC7 as I think that everyone here is adult and can collect advice from its home tax office or even do what he want it is not my problem if someone here got in trouble one day.

This is why I state that it wasn’t advices but my personal opinion. DAC 7 is easy in itself , you fill the form of LD, the marketplace send all information to the tax administration in NL and after they use it as they wanted,  basta as Italian say.

For the case of Jodieke we say the same thing and that this is not related to DAC7 in this specific case. If you are paid to do a service you need to pay taxes as other professionals do. If you do it as a volunteer this is different but taking advice outside this forum is not a bad idea and tax controlers can be helpful and nice persons. Some are also collectors.

I stop to write and please I prefer not to give anymore  my opinion on DAC7 and tax matters and not ask questions. 
  • 199 messages
  • January 03, 2024 20:38
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January 03, 2024 20:38
Rene As a logical person I agree that the number of stamps, comics in a shop if you are just a collector as nothing to do with DAC7 but tax regulations are not so logical , meet a director of NL tax office at high level or a good tax lawyer and you will learn a lot and the same in Belgium or France will say an other story.

You got the rules and you got the practical field and the actual aims is to collect the maximum of taxes as European countries need more and more money.

An other point is as you state do you sell stamps, comics to make an outcome or just as a normal non profit collector do ? That a very good remark you did Rene 

A professional sellers pay a lot of taxes and benefits and the 2024 aims is to detect those who are non registered professional, certainly just very few or none in LastDodo not the case on the big Marketplaces that explain all I say that are non logical for me and you but are for a tax controler and the tax administration.

I am not a professional none a tax officer I am personally for the freedom to do what you want as you respect others.

I stop here to write as I don’t want to be ban of LD for what I write.
  • 120 messages
  • January 03, 2024 21:06
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January 03, 2024 21:06
Rene It is a courtesy for a fellow collector who I have known for a long time, but with whom things are not going well. So time is indeed a factor. Moreover, it mainly concerns masses of original records, but if I sell them, they all end up in my account. And original records, that counts!
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