I have entered a number of items under the heading “Fantasy / parody stamps”.
These are stamps issued on the occasion of the International Exhibition of 1897 in Brussels, the Provincial Exhibition of 899 in Ghent, the World Exhibition of 1910 in Brussels and a stamp of 5 c. issued just after the 1st World War for the benefit of the Mutilated.
On the one hand, they are not real stamps (although some were canceled by the Post (presumably because they were pasted together with real stamps).
On the other hand, strictly speaking, they are not fantasy or parody stamps either, but I have not found any other use type for them.
I possibly propose (although I probably do not have to enter new items myself), that a new use type would be created for these stamps, eg occasional stamps (analogous to the occasion envelopes).

I think we should leave these stamps out of the stamps category - because they are not stamps. Neither are the fantasy / parody stamps, but they do pretend to be a stamp. In this case they are just "stamps" - kind of like the Albert Heyn savings stamps. In the Netherlands, especially in the 1960s and 1970s, many of these stamps were issued. (Including Leiden University and the Royal Family). occasional stamps is certainly not a good name, because below we rank stamps issued on the occasion of an occasion. these stamps should therefore come in their own section "Other stamps", all kinds of savings stamps would also fit.

aan ErikBoere

Ik kom even terug op jouw bericht van 26 juni ll. Ik ben natuurlijk akkoord om toe te geven dat de door mij ingevoerde zegels onder de rubriek fantasie/parodiezegels niet op hun correcte plaats staan.

Zoals je voorstelt zou er bij gelegenheid een nieuwe rubriek "Overige zegels" of "Cinderellazegels" moeten gecreëerd worden, waar onder meer fantasiezegels, spaarzegels, gelegenheidszegels, fiscale zegels enz... in terechtkunnen.

IK heb tot nu toe ca. 20 zegels die ik in deze nieuwe rubriek zou kunnen invoeren.

to Erik Boere

I come back to your message of June 26th. Of course I agree to admit that the stamps I entered under the fantasy/parody stamps section are not in their correct place.

As you suggest, a new section "Other stamps" or "Cinderella stamps" should be created on occasion , which could include fantasy stamps, savings stamps, occasional stamps, fiscal stamps, etc.

So far I have about 20 stamps that I could enter in this new section.

@Tapir

I already have a request to create the section 'Tax stamps'. But since these are not stamps, I think it should just be a new collection section. Fish collection stamps and hunting stamps could also be placed underneath.

I also don't think 'Savings stamps' really fall under the POST stamps. If you want to include it, it seems to me that it should become a separate section with subdivisions by petrol companies, supermarkets, etc.

Cinderella stamps do belong to postage because they may or may not have been issued 'intentionally' as if they were a postage stamp, which is a tricky and debatable topic. Are the seals of the Order of Malta cinderella seals or not? (This order only has bilateral postal delivery agreements with the Vatican or something ...)

The question is whether you should classify the many non-legitimate stamps, especially issued by African countries, under the Cinderella. These are stamps that are fraudulently issued under a particular country name as if they were stamps of that country. (see http://www.upu.int/en/activites/philatelie/circulaires.html For the sad list). Distribution of these stamps is illegal and I think we should not include them.

By occasional stamps you mean anything that resembles a stamp in shape but is not. Actually, they would not belong to the postage stamps either, with the exception of the closing stamps that do have to do with the post. Incidentally, there is a second reason for this: The Scandinavian Jul stamps that are pasted next to the stamp, are issued by the postal service and are also included in many stamp catalogs.

Here too you get some discussion: The Belgian 'railway stamps' that are issued nowadays do not serve any postal purpose ......

Regarding the Cinderella stamps that Erik is talking about from Africa (and many old Asian Soviet states as well) are of course very fake, and I personally don't like it, but I understand that they are fanatical in England. are saved and even reasonably high prices are paid on eg E-bay, so apparently there is a market / collectors audience for

.

Double see below / biven

I agree with you. there is still a clear difference between the stamps of, for example, Staffa and the 'fake' stamps of African countries. in the latter case, there is really a fraudulent deception. Someone falsely issues stamps in the name of an official stamp country. Issuing and distributing these types of stamps is punishable (but difficult to tackle). der UPU is making a 'manhunt' for it, but has not yet much results. With the stamps of Staffa you can know why. The 'Cinderella' stamps include a colorful group of stamps, such as the stamps of the Republic of Moluccas (which also have a political background), the stamps of Brise islands that have their own 'postal service' with the mainland (a rowing boat that operates once a week). brings the letters to the mainland) etc. As far as I am concerned, not the illegal stamps. all parties affiliated to the WADP have agreed to combat these stamps - which means for catalog publishers to keep them out of the catalog. I think we should join ions in that. Incidentally, it is not inconceivable that these stamps will sooner or later be imported 'under the country', so checking countries such as Ivory Coast, Burundi and many Russian states will be important.

I understand the dilemma, but banning illegal stamps from the catalog, I feel, is equivalent to denying that they exist.

In my personal situation as collector of stamps with motif Alice in Wonderland, I am not really interested in those illegal stamps (they are often very ugly), but I do want to know which ones they are, so that I can consciously choose not to use them. to include in my collection.

I would suggest simply assigning it the classification "illegal release" (as with comics). If necessary, you could block the sell option if there are legal or moral objections to it.

I agree with Erik to keep fake stamps out of this catalog. Otherwise you would still recognize these illegal stamps as collectible and as a serious site you should not want to cooperate with that. But it is indeed difficult with areas such as Sahara and Sovereign Military Order of Malta. Staffa could be seen as a private postal service.

I don't entirely agree, Postmaster. Whether something worth collecting is definitely everyone for himself? Now if I want to collect these illegal stamps, isn't that my right to do so? I think it is better to indicate, as Boekenmagazijn says, that it is an illegal publication.

I understand the dilemma, but banning illegal stamps from the catalog, I feel, is equivalent to denying that they exist.

In particular, I do NOT want to include stamps that have been illegally issued on behalf of a country without the issuer having permission to do so. These are all stamps that appear in the circulars of the WADP. There is great consensus within the philatelic world about the undesirability of these stamps. Trade in these stamps is illegal. Seizures have also taken place at international stamp exhibitions. As a member of the ASCAT and as webmaster of the IFSDA site, I have been closely involved in this discussion. I have also been in regular contact with the UPU about this matter. In fact, producers of perforating machines e, d. printing presses notify the UPU if suspicious buyers come forward.

While illegal comics may cause a civil dispute, the issue of illegal postage stamps (securities) falls under criminal law.

I think - all things considered - that as a serious catalog we should not be unruly in this area. The practices are detrimental to philately. Inclusion in a catalog would therefore be a completely wrong signal.

So I am not talking about the Staffa seals and the Malta Order. As far as I am concerned, they may be under the Cinderella stamps.

I understand exactly what you mean, but including such stamps in the catalog is not prohibited in itself. As a collector I would like to be able to look up which stamps are illegal, precisely so as NOT to mistake them for real.

I think an (illustrated) overview is urgently needed. And why wouldn't Catawiki take the lead?

Or else should I assume that everything that is not in Catawiki is illegal?
;-)

Because whether or not to display these "stamps" has been extensively discussed within the WADP and the members of the WADP (Int. Traders Association, Int. Catalog Publishers Association, International Collectors Association, UPU and the International Association of Philatelic Journalists) have reached the conclusion that it was better to boycott these stamps completely and not to depict them.

This position, widely supported in the world of collectors, is respected by these parties.

In my opinion, the above discussion contains two important elements:

1) Except for the case of the current illegal stamps, it will have to be determined with precision which "other" and / or "cinderella stamps" qualify to form a separate catalog.

The article about this in wikipedia http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_%28filatelie%29

can be a start to thinking ...

2) The introduction of illegal stamps (deliberate or unintentional) by new or existing collectors will only increase the responsibility of the administrators who in this case will have to react quickly. It should not be the case that these stamps disfigure the existing catalogs for a few days or weeks, in fact pollute!

When these fantasy stamps are collected, they must be given a place within Catawiki. After all, this is a collectors site and not bound by WADP rules.

I am also in favor of including these illegal items. Catawiki should not engage in these discussions, but only register what exists and whether or not it is collected.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internetcriminality:

"Internet crime

cybercrime refers to all forms of crime where the use of Internet plays a leading role.

Examples of internet crime include

• hack into computers or computer networks ( hacking );
• dissemination of illegal material (such as child pornography );
• the unauthorized distribution of copyright material (music and films);
• misleading people using phishing or pharming ;
• causing nuisance by means of, for example, spam or flooding . "

As far as I know, the internet is still a medium for disseminating information and so is Catawiki.

Conclusion: do not distribute illegal stamps via Catawiki.

I understand the arguments.

In any case, I indicate that as a prominent site you are on very slippery ice. On a very large other philatelic website, these stamps have recently been quickly removed under pressure from postal organizations and trademark owners. The stamps often illegally use logos of WWF, Olympic Games, Rotary, Star Wars etc. and these are powerful parties with a long arm. Stamps and promotional material have been confiscated at several major stamp events. So it is 'asking for trouble'.

I would rather not take responsibility for that.

I say this with 'some insight' into what is going on.

As I said I have no problem with blocking the sale of illegal items through CW, but just showing the stamps is not yet spreading. (With child pornography this is of course somewhat different, because the image itself is prohibited.)

By the way, I didn't know that porn was not allowed with the DVDs (indeed I don't see a genre "erotic"), but I did wonder if there is already a policy regarding material that banned on many other sites, such as Nazi memorabilia or pornography (eBay or MP doesn't allow you to offer a relatively innocent Playboy, which is available in even the most respectable magazine stores). If there are no valid legal arguments to ban those items, then we are moving on the slippery slope of censorship.

Can you impose your own moral views on all users of "an online catalog of images and information on all that collectors collect"?

Erik does indeed touch on an important point: the misuse of copyright rules by wealthy organizations to "protect" their own interests. In the comic book world we know, for example, Moulinsart and Disney, which can make your life quite miserable. Because the rules differ worldwide, it is difficult for an international website to avoid all the pitfalls.

I hope that some of the new investments are reserved for sound legal advice.

separate from the discussion

Can you impose your own moral views on all users of "an online catalog of images and information on all that collectors collect"?

They are not my own moral views. These are the positions taken by the WADP, in which all philatelic parties are united.

Incidentally, during discussions about the WADP at the time (2002), I myself put on the table the plan to display all illegal stamps on the WADP site. At the time, this was very consciously - partly in view of the complications with trademark law, but also in the consideration of whether this would precisely stimulate illegal practices.

Apparently opinions differ within the WADP as well.

By the way, just discovered the WNS site of the WADP. Very useful if you don't have a recent catalog yourself.