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April 06, 2014 11:19

Can lot 147 of the upcoming Monday comic auction in the Netherlands be sold?

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April 06, 2014 11:31

If I were catawiki I would pick it up quickly. According to Article 137E of the Code the trade in or the disclosure of Nazi articles is prohibited. Voet is pleased with Spong's statement. "It provides a bit more clarity, because even though the signs are taped, it remains Nazi material, says Esther Voet."

Incredibly tasteless

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April 06, 2014 11:33

If the niod or anne frank house gets wind of this, it can generate a lot of negative publicity for Catawiki.

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April 06, 2014 11:41

Big bullshit. Nothing wrong with that lot.

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April 06, 2014 11:44

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/Binnenland/article/detail/3558707/2013/12/09/Hanss-kan-op-Marktplaats-geen-Hitler -schilderij-meer-koop.dhtml Apart from the fact that I personally find it disgusting, trade in Nazi material is prohibited in the Netherlands. Marktplaats has already been warned about this.

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April 06, 2014 12:06

Lot is Nazi propaganda and therefore prohibited .......

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April 06, 2014 12:24

No Nazi articles, no Nazi propaganda, not banned.

Lot 147

It may not be stated in which context these drawings were made, but do you have any idea who Caryl Strzelecki is? His book The Colors of the Ghetto recently awarded the National Jewish Book Award, among others.

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April 06, 2014 12:45

Okay

I was just asking myself because the hitler with swastika symbol is on his arm and it's not really a mock spider.

That Catawiki is not there anyway by getting into trouble!

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April 06, 2014 17:47

I wouldn't use the word bullshit so lightly.

in Germany this is strictly forbidden.

and this item can be bought by someone in this country (e.g. Saatsanwalt or Avocaat who wants Böses)

Verwenden von Kennzeichen Verfassungswidriger Organizationen (1) With Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird punished, wer 1. im Inland Kennzeichen einer der in § 86 Abs. 1 No. 1, 2 und 4 bezeichneten Parteien oder Vereinigungen verbreitet oder öffentlich, in einer Versammlung oder in von ihm verbreiteten Teksten (§ 11 Abs. 3) pampered oder 2. Gegenstände, die derartige Kennzeichen darstellen oder enthalten, zur Verbreitung oder Verwendung im

Inland or Ausland!!!!!

in der in Number 1 bezeichneten Art und Weise restoret, vorrätig hält, einführt oder ausführt. (2) Kennzeichen im Sinne des Absatzes 1 sindnamentlich Fahnen, Abzeichen(Hakenkreuz,SS Runen etc)und Grußformen. Den in Satz 1 genannten Kennzeichen stehen solche gleich, die ihnen zum Verwechseln ähnlich sind. (3) § 86 Abs. 3 und 4 gilt entsprechend.

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April 06, 2014 17:53

Indeed Baron. Oversimplified comment from book warehouse. Then at least argue it

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April 06, 2014 21:10

Don't panic, Baron ;-)

3) Absatz 1 gilt nicht, wenn das Propagandamittel oder die Handlung der Staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehrverfassungswidriger Bestrebungen, der Kunst oder der Wissenschaft, der Forschung oder der Lehre, derberichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte oder ähnlichen Zwecken serves.

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April 06, 2014 21:10

[double click, WiFi in the train is a bit slow]

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April 06, 2014 21:34

Art serves? Nonsense!

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April 07, 2014 08:52

Panic with a wink, it doesn't matter to me, but you just shouldn't want such items on your sales channel, just like Ivory, where recently again sold without Cita.

But just put it for fun at Ebay.de on the Site in no time it will be gone with if you are lucky only with a big warning and 1 month ebay offer if you do it again you can Ebay for the rest of your life.

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April 07, 2014 10:11
What's so bad about those drawings? Aren't they just drawings? It is not an incitement to hatred, and since when have we allowed German law to dictate? That way, CataWiki would also have to comply with US laws and that would be a very serious consideration for me to stop using CataWiki. Not that I am interested in the item, but I think they are very exaggerated if they are classifies drawings as prohibited items.
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April 07, 2014 10:43

when do we let German law prescribe something

da bleibt mir die spücke weg

if you sell something in another country you have to abide by those laws, moreover, catawikki also has a German site

click on goole then catgewi.de then there will be Auktionshaus und Katalog für Sammeler then you go on auktion as a German you offer an article with a swastika there there are two drawings with quite happy children and a Hitler who puts an arm around a child, this has nothing to do with art and also not with zeitgeschichten etc. and that is therefore prohibited in Germany

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April 07, 2014 12:35

Did the moral knights take the trouble to follow Strippins' suggestion and first immerse themselves in Caryl Strzelecki before shouting foul? That's hard for me to imagine.

We see a swastika, so don't think any further but just ban it right away!!

Is that how it works these days?

Silly symbolism (literally). And dangerous too. Why not ban Wagner and sheepdogs? You know who else was crazy about banning symbols? Has anyone already reported that second print to the child pornography hotline? That caricatured man with that strange mustache is very familiar with that much too young boy. And how did that lad get that red blush on his cheeks? And why do they both look so caught? Not clean coffee if you ask me. Quickly ban.

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April 07, 2014 13:45

@pegag

About this book you will not hear anyone complaining at all ... (;-)

What Catawiki has to do very quickly is to mention a so-called imprint (colophon) on catawiki.de. This is required by law on all German sites. Failure to comply can result in fines of thousands of euros.

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April 07, 2014 13:48

Speaking of Wagner yourself, Wagner was an anti-Semite at heart. I am referring here to an article by Wagner, Das Judentum in der Musik from 1850. That is why no Wagner auction pieces in the ramsj!

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April 07, 2014 13:57

Sorry Peter but as far as I am concerned it really has nothing to do with moral righteousness

I was just wondering if it wasn't illegal by law to sell a hitler image with swastika I have indeed not studied it because that does not seem important to me

Is it allowed or not allowed is just the question and then adding child pornography makes no sense

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April 07, 2014 15:25

Sorry Peter, but as far as I am concerned it really has nothing to do with moral drive

Your original simple question not no, but what happened next. And I regulated on that.

What annoys me completely blindly is the politically stupid hyper-correctness, in which we prohibit, avoid and circumvent everything in advance. Nine times out of ten because we no longer have to think for ourselves what we think about something and why. Being offended is not only a choice, it is usually the easiest choice. Nowadays we have even gone so far that we are insulted on behalf of someone else who we think could be offended by something.

May or may it not is just the question and then there Catching up on child pornography makes no sense

If you think that the pedo interpretation of that second drawing has been dragged along with the hair, you are absolutely right, but you still miss the point, What it boils down to is that it is an interpretation and as such completely equivalent to Baron's " two drawings with quite happy children and a Hitler putting an arm around a child " If I can convince you that it is actually a cartoon is where Mr. AH you can suddenly shit ugly and you won't hear anyone about that swastika anymore. Only that other interpretation can be bothered by others for completely different reasons. I explained it very carefully to him :-) Yet it is the same picture all this time.

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April 07, 2014 15:43

Dear forum members,

It has never been my intention to portray Adolf Hitler as a glorification of the Nazi empire. It is one of the many preparations for a next book concerning the Hitler Youth. I mean, therefore, that it is extremely important for me as a draftsman to professionally study uniforms, backgrounds, reading and sketches before I actually get to work on the real book. I am definitely not trying to gain a reputation as a troublemaker, but on the other hand, I am not seeking the approval of each individual either. It would simply take too much effort.

My personal impression, however, is that with certain satirical drawings (cartoons) one can often laugh at the most inappropriate things (according to my own limited understanding of course) and often fewer problems are made around that. And to be honest, I have never received any comments myself.

But what I personally consider important is that everyone certainly gets the right to speak up! That is also my conviction with which I can fully agree.

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April 07, 2014 15:49

I forgot to sign the previous message with my own name.

Caryl Strzelecki

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April 07, 2014 18:55

I believe the actual point has been a bit lost about the question is this allowed !!

and I am of the opinion that if you sell internationally you are well off must convince whether it is allowed in other countries.

and that has nothing to do with the imposition of laws of other countries.

when I visit my sister in the Netherlands I do not drive 180 KM on the highway I can do this in Germany and I don't think I will not let the law prescribe in the Netherlands 120 and 130 is too slow for me, but then stick to the Dutch law is expensive enough.

personally, as far as I am concerned, you can book anything from the Third Reich, drawings, mockers, comics, etc., as long as they do not glorify them on the net anywhere in the world.

a few years ago on an antiques market in NL a nice picture Book with pictures to paste yourself in from 1936 found (they were published a lot by the cigarettes industry at the time) it was about H erman Göring and his Luftwaffe was quite innocent no propaganda with many pictures of airplanes and maybe 3 pictures of HG with a Swastika on his arm put on Ebay.de

well forget it but got up for 10 minutes and I had to go deep through the dust for a month I could no longer use my Account and before it was opened again I had to answer many questions yes I am now good no I will never do that again etc.

and yes a Imprint is urgently needed

and good night for me everyone is the end of the discussion mrs Baron.

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April 08, 2014 02:03

But an American can, for example, also visit websites from the Netherlands or any country. If he buys something on the Dutch Auction Site, does he have to comply with American law (where I think the item is prohibited) or Dutch? Or what about a German buyer on a Dutch site (I think still the Dutch law). And do other laws apply to CataWiki.be, fr or de then CataWiki.nl? Then you cannot just translate the Catalog to those countries, because there are probably different rules than in the Netherlands.

A very difficult problem and I believe that there is also such a thing as freedom on the internet. I think we are very proud of that in the Netherlands and so am I. Actually, the same should apply to the website in all countries.

@ baronselderie-5 : It is a shame that you have such negative experiences with e-bay, but I don't know if I would participate in the almighty e-bay. If they refuse my item and close my account, I wouldn't want to cooperate with them in any way. As if they think it has been placed on purpose, the arrogance!

And finally just as clear: I too am against the glorification of A.H. (not Albert Heijn;)), but I also think freedom of action is a very great achievement in our country (the Netherlands) and I detest any incitement to hatred.

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