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  • 614 messages
  • May 14, 2010 01:21
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May 14, 2010 01:21

Quality of stamps is decisive for the price. In recent days I have seen stamps under "MNH" in a few shops where the description makes it clear that these are not MNH but unused, sometimes even damaged stamps. (For example: “MNH, but with a little sticker”)
MNH is original MNH as issued by the postal service, without gum damage, and certainly not re-gummed.
Offering the wrong quality stamps gives a distorted picture of the prices.
We want to keep the quality high as well as the reliability of the catalog and shops. Shopkeepers: Stick to the rules.
Classify correctly according to quality, and do not offer damaged stamps, even if you state it fairly. A comic book with a tear is slightly less, a stamp with a tear is simply broken and worthless.
And anyone who sees these kinds of things I ask to report it. erik@catawiki.nl
Catawiki is a serious platform that goes for quality, which ultimately benefits both buyers and sellers!
Tip for shop owners: Guarantee the purchase, but make a copy or scan for yourself of expensive stamps that you send.

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  • 58 messages
  • May 14, 2010 11:28
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May 14, 2010 11:28

I totally agree with you about offering the right quality. What I have a different opinion about, however, is the damaged stamps. I don't think this is a problem if you add this honestly (an image is certainly useful). By the way, I think that stamps that are damaged are not worthless, there are plenty of examples on the internet where damaged stamps are sold for a few hundred euros or more. By the way, what is “damaged”, think of old stamps, I think you can place a lot under damaged…

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  • 614 messages
  • May 14, 2010 20:57
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May 14, 2010 20:57

I agree that there is still some trade in damaged stamps, also known as "fillers". But that mainly concerns expensive stamps and they are traded at a fraction of the catalog value. But to admit them is out of the question as far as I am concerned, and this is because of the point where you agree with me: offering stamps of the wrong quality. If you allowed them, you would put damaged stamps under the same quality as intact stamps. The price list then becomes less transparent, it creates confusion and the automatically generated list price will be partly based on broken stamps. So it would only work if you entered a quality "damaged", and I am not in favor of that, it would not make Catawiki more serious either….
There is also discussion about the comics and I do not have the impression that they are waiting for a quality for read and disintegrated comic books. And with stamps it is even stricter.

Damage is generally easy to define: pinprick, short or set tooth (of course with the comments on the line teeth), rust, thin spot, crack, image damage and gum note on gum, sticky mark, partly missing gum. With classic stamps you still have a subjective evaluation of things like centering, with canceled stamps of the stamp. That is why we recommend that you also offer classic stamps with your own scan. But a poorer centering or a thick stamp will not damage a stamp. Of course, the width of the edge plays a role in the untapped stamp, which is a bit more complicated. A cut stamp (part of the stamp image is missing) is in any case damaged.
As far as I am concerned, broken stamps are better offered elsewhere, rather sell less but become a reliable site.

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  • 58 messages
  • May 14, 2010 22:27
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May 14, 2010 22:27

I don't see a problem with submitting damaged stamps. If you create a separate quality “damaged”, you will ensure that people who want to offer these stamps also place it in that section and not under a different quality as is happening now. This also solves this problem and the automatically generated price can no longer go wrong.

And as you say, “damaged” is also very easy to determine (the definition you just gave can therefore be used as an indication of this quality). I think this will only improve the quality of the catalog and I think there are enough collectors who can live with (some) damage.

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  • 614 messages
  • May 15, 2010 00:33
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May 15, 2010 00:33

If you were to present it as a separate quality, some of the objections would indeed disappear. In turn means three extra qualities, MNH damaged, unused damaged and used damaged. To be honest, I have to laugh a bit about it now and I don't think many collectors will take Catawiki seriously then. because no catalog gives prices for damaged stamps.
But as far as I can tell, no other section offers explicitly damaged articles. There is also never anyone who asks for damaged stamps in my shop. In fact, I don't want to sell them. (even though one will slip through every now and then).
We could also make the quality "false". Because there are also people who want to fill the holes of expensive stamps with forgeries. A well-known example is the Van der Bijl stamp number NVPH 101. Still, I think we shouldn't do that either.

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  • 58 messages
  • May 15, 2010 10:37
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May 15, 2010 10:37

The “fake” category doesn't seem like a good idea either.

“Damaged”, on the other hand, still seems like a good idea. By the way, if you look at the other sections, the quality is indicated according to “degree of damage” and not as is the case with postage stamps. I would not make 3 categories for damaged stamps, just damaged seems enough. Otherwise it will be a bit laughable as you say.

Furthermore, that price should not be stated where the prices of the quality are now, just the possibility to offer it or to indicate it in your collection would be useful in my opinion. For example, if you have a damaged copy, you can indicate this and then you can look for a better copy here. I do have a number of items in my collection that are not perfect (here and there a tooth is missing or something), but I collect them anyway (and I think I am not alone with this).

And isn't Catawiki for everything that is collected? (see homepage: “an online catalog with images and information about everything that collectors collect.”

I think that no one comes to your store specifically to ask about damaged stamps is pretty normal (you don't sell it now and no one is going to specifically look for it, but if there are I guess people might rather such a damaged copy than none).

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  • 787 messages
  • May 15, 2010 14:54
May 15, 2010 14:54

Interesting discussion!
What to think about, for example, the following own images:
- “Cross of Lorraine (50c+10c)” (catawiki no. 286043 ) stamped: top left corner rounded;
- “Cross of Lorraine (25c+15c)” (catawiki no. 286039 ) stamped: perforation right irregular.
Simply not sellable? Or at a reduced price?

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  • 614 messages
  • May 15, 2010 16:35
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May 15, 2010 16:35

Just to be clear: these are the stamps that you click on under "tapir"
The 50 cents seems damaged to me.
I cannot judge the 25 + 15 very well, it seems that the perforation seems irregular because of the stamp.

Beautiful animal, such a tapir!

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  • May 15, 2010 17:26
May 15, 2010 17:26

Thank you for the explanation and the compliment!
When looking at the original 25 + 15, the rounding of a second punch (the first is visible on the left) is indeed the cause of the impression that the perforation appears irregular.
Sorry…
What about another example of an item entered by me:
King Leopold III (70c) catawiki nr. 1128199 (reverse print)
The stamp on the left is clearly damaged, the stamp on the right is MNH.
In my opinion, for its value determination, the value of one MNH stamp should in any case be assumed and perhaps on top of another value because it is a reverse print (two inseparable stamps, one of which is indeed damaged. I'll hear what the final decision will be…

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  • May 15, 2010 17:30
May 15, 2010 17:30

to add to my previous post:
… Of the whole discussion about quality

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  • 614 messages
  • May 15, 2010 20:47
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May 15, 2010 20:47

I should have seen it right! The new example: the one stamp is clearly damaged, and therefore the pair cannot be presented as such. If I had it in my collection I would keep it until I had a better one. And split after that, then you have at least one good stamp left :-)
As far as I am concerned, you can offer it as a separate stamp with the damaged stamp as an appendix as a bonus….
Speaking of appendices: that will be complicated, we will soon add Israel and that should actually be done twice, with and without (full) tab. But Belgium has those Sunday appendages and later those ugly Prior labels. Personally, I don't think a stamp without an appendix is damaged, but it has a completely different price. Should we include it as such? Similar problems arise with Dutch stamps from sheets of 10. These also have added value with tab.
Well, I repeat that postage stamps cause much more complications with cataloging than, for example, ehhh… .strips. But that also makes it challenging!

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  • 58 messages
  • May 16, 2010 11:12
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May 16, 2010 11:12

It is certainly more challenging!

Well as far as the tabs are concerned, I think you will have to add both or provide an option with / without a tab somewhere, I don't know exactly how this should be done… and is the stamp with tab shown by default? Think that there will be a problem that many will place their seal incorrectly with those with tab if it is without.

Seals without a tab are also not damaged in my opinion. So should be entered everywhere with and without a tab, I think…

As far as Tapir's reverse pressure is concerned, this is still a pair for me, but damaged under quality. As Erik says, I would keep these in my collection and if I find a better one, replace it. But then this copy can still be sold as a pair, but then damaged.

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  • 614 messages
  • May 16, 2010 11:59
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May 16, 2010 11:59

Hi Vlendert

I am indeed afraid of incorrect placement, and that would give a completely wrong price picture. Also, the default image would be confusing if it is not replaced by its own scan. The best is a double listing for both with and without tab, but in such a way that both are shown by default, then the chance of incorrect entries is smallest. You could edit the existing scans to cut the tab off. In any case, I intend to do this with Israel.
We shouldn't wait too long to prevent the items from now getting a "mixed" offer. You make it immediately possible for collectors to enter the stamps correctly. If you can calculate the value of your catalog based on list prices, it should be just a bit correct.

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  • May 24, 2010 02:12
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May 24, 2010 02:12

Also in the past few days I saw several stamps offered with defects. MNH with gum damage is not MNH. Defective stamps do not belong on Catawiki. We will soon also be removing the range of shop owners who do not comply with the rules from the price overviews. If you see something like this, please report it.

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  • May 24, 2010 19:59
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May 24, 2010 19:59

I still disagree that damaged stamps do not belong on Catawiki. I think it is more than logical that they should not be offered under perfect condition (as are now all states with Stamps). However, I do not think it is correct that they should not be offered. I still think a separate category “damaged” is definitely a good idea. To calculate a list price for this is a bit too far-reaching. But I also think banning these objects is too far-reaching.

This category should be entered quickly, otherwise there will be problems with the automatic price calculation that is coming. So it is best to add it beforehand. But as long as this category is not there, you can threaten a lot, but I don't see many real solutions. I don't think scaring people off is the right way.

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  • May 25, 2010 10:50
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May 25, 2010 10:50

Too bad we cannot agree on this. I will list my arguments again:
1. Defective stamps are almost always worthless, if they are offered - however cheap it may be - it is usually still far too expensive. You give buyers the false impression that they are buying something that still has some value. Every now and then I get someone who offers me a collection that consists largely of B-choice material, bought cheaply and the disappointment of such a collector when I say that I simply do not buy such a collection is huge.
2. I don't want Catawiki to become a junk receptacle and dumping ground like other sales sites. Let's just go for quality.
3. As a professional trader I do not offer damaged stamps, at most as part of a collection or batch. Would also cause serious problems because as a buyer you have to give a guarantee on sold items, and how can I now guarantee a broken stamp - I would then have to first have the buyer sign a statement that he knows that the seal is defective and therefore waives warranty…
4. You are going to add the quality "damaged" as if it were really a quality to be cataloged ... which existing catalog does that?
5. In other sections, "fair condition" is the lowest quality. Really damaged comic books, LPs with a heavy scratch, books that have been in a ditch for a week and cups with a large chipped or crack in them can rightly not be offered. And then they are often articles with a practical use, a comic book with cracks in it that is out of the binding, is still easy to read. Why should we - where we still lay a reasonable base with other objects - for lower quality stamps, while in the best case you can only stick a damaged stamp on a letter?

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  • 614 messages
  • May 25, 2010 22:01
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May 25, 2010 22:01

Discussion continued on admin platform, general.

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  • May 26, 2010 02:58
May 26, 2010 02:58

Agree with Erik's arguments.
In my opinion, the conditions for “MNH”, “unused” and “canceled” are well established, and there can be little or no discussion about this.
But what is "damaged"? For one, “damaged” may mean “slightly damaged”, for the other “badly damaged” and a third will find it “fairly badly damaged”.
Where is the boundary drawn and who is going to determine that boundary?
Since this term is interpreted very subjectively, it will not be possible to discuss it objectively…
It's that simple.
Discussion closed!

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  • 614 messages
  • May 26, 2010 10:36
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May 26, 2010 10:36

Surely there is reasonable agreement within the trade about what is damaged or not. Of course there are always edge cases, eg short (er) tooth. The type of perforation is also a determining factor. Lightly or heavily damaged is furthermore both damaged…

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  • 4 messages
  • October 28, 2010 20:10
October 28, 2010 20:10

I am pleased that the standards are of paramount importance at Catawiki. You may know that I am very disappointed by my stamp association. Indeed, many people use the incorrect descriptions. The last five years I bought a lot of MNH and then you came home and then the stamp was held under a large lamp and then you unfortunately had to conclude that the stamps had been re-gummed. Apparently there are many collectors who ignore the description. I have often responded to the board and to the auctioneer, however, those people could not be reached. I even bought a stock book with Swiss stamps at the association auction. "as MNH" Randomly I checked the collection. When I got home many stamps had been re-gummed and a sticker was damaged. After a complaint to the auctioneer, it turned out to be the chairman of the association himself. I could have the book. I declined this. First, I don't want these seals and I didn't want to be blackmailed. I would be silenced. Unfortunately I had to conclude that there were more people on the board who did not act properly. This is also the reason that I went to Catawiki. When Catawiki will act carefully, there will be great confidence and will bear fruit in the future. The people are coming back and going to get and have a lot of stamp fun, and that's the point.

Micho

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  • 614 messages
  • October 29, 2010 19:45
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October 29, 2010 19:45

@Micho

Nice to hear that you like that we try to keep the quality high. It is of course also up to individual shopkeepers to fulfill this promise. I should note that the phenomenon of 'gummed up' is sometimes very difficult. Last week I received a series of neatly gummed En Face stamps. Because they curled very quickly and vertically, I didn't trust it and sent them to a well-known judge, who confirmed my suspicion. was a very good forgery.
It takes experience and comparison material to be able to judge everything.

Old blank FDCs are also very 'tricky'.

You can expect professional trade (PRO) to be able to make a distinction. Private providers don't always have the knowledge (you can't expect it either). With the PRO traders you always have a legal right to return, with the NVPH trade you also have the internet guarantee scheme.

Quality has its price, but poor quality - no matter how cheap - is always expensive.

I also regularly buy on Catawiki, and luckily I get good stamps or people are willing to smooth out a mistake.

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  • 2 messages
  • January 08, 2011 21:30
January 08, 2011 21:30

To the manager of the Foroyar Islands: Bring a little (a lot of) order to this part of Catawiki! What a mess it is there! At a minimum, make sure stamps that are part of a series are displayed together.

Another suggestion: Ban participants who enter/ask clearly inflated prices. Example: 40 € for the series from 1977: "Faroese Fishing Vessels", while the market value for that series does not exceed 3 € ... If people like this can be active on your site, I will be gone soon!

Good luck!

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  • 36 messages
  • January 08, 2011 22:21
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January 08, 2011 22:21

Bring a little (a lot of) order to this part of Catawiki! What a mess it is there! At the very least, make sure that stamps that are part of a series are displayed together.

'Nice' comment for someone who has only been active on Catawiki for two weeks.

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  • 4,308 messages
  • January 08, 2011 23:22
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January 08, 2011 23:22

I can't find anyone who asks so much for it ...

Fishing vessels

Incidentally, I believe that every seller can set his own price, however ridiculous it may be. After all, no collector is forced to take advantage of the offer.

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  • 58 messages
  • January 09, 2011 12:49
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January 09, 2011 12:49

I agree with Boekenmagazijn that anyone can offer an item at a price of their choice. The buyer decides where to buy it.

In my opinion, this is not a sales price but the catalog value. This is 40 euros. This is because previously it concerned 4 blocks of 4 stamps. Then the value was correct. Later the image was replaced to the series of 4 loose stamps. Now the value is no longer correct. This change has not yet been reviewed by administrators so is not final yet.

In the meantime, the 4 blocks are offered for sale by 1 seller (the importer of the item) and the series in separate stamps by the other sellers. This is not the intention. These should be 2 separate items in the catalog.

@ RB54: if you see wrong prices in the catalog, you can always pass on a price suggestion via the item itself. This is a bit smoother than via the forum.

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