Go to page
25of 31
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 30, 2020 23:52
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 30, 2020 23:52

I added some Belgian items belonging to the Erinnophilia (included in the OBP, the E-catalog numbers).

Someone (Loriot) then changed some of the country from Belgium to Fantasy Land.

I am quite new here and I don't really get that.

To make my next contributions better, I asked that editor for some explanation: what and why. I have added some more of the same kind (Erinnophilia as a branch of philately) (and some that were already present). All with the OBP in hand, of course.

Now I do not receive an answer and I do not know whether the changes are in accordance with the applicable agreements, and what the reason is. And whether it should be like this.
It may just as well be that the editor doesn't know what is innophilia ...

Should all existing items of Innophilia under Belgium now be given 'Fantasyland' as country, or is it a mistake?

Do the private issues also have to move?

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 909 messages
  • October 31, 2020 03:16
5K
added
1K
prices
25K
reviews
500
posts
October 31, 2020 03:16

@ Raoul62,

Strictly speaking: if not postage, are they stamps or not? Because you cannot send 'mail' with it. But Erinnophilia does lean towards Philately ...

I also know too little about it. Simply send a message to an administrator and ask them for advice / help / advice.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 09:31
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 09:31

Thank you for your answer, @buizer

Postage value ... if strictly speaking, okay. But then a few thousand items have to be moved from their land to fantasy land n ...

I found some Erinnophilia items in the LD catalog, in the country Belgium, so I assumed that they belong there (in my opinion rightly so).

The stamp section on LD per country is also full of non-stamps. First-day newspapers in the Netherlands (blue, yellow, gray, white, orange, ...), for example, are not postage stamps. They belong to the cardboard philately. Not in the official NVPH stamp catalog. But there is a special Zonnebloem catalog, and a specialties NVPH catalog where you can find most of them.

Publibels bv. may have a postage value, but they are not postage stamps. They are not in the official OPB catalog. But there is a good catalog of 'postal stationery' (version 2020 only published), and a Michel catalog Ganzsachen in which they are included.

The Erinnophilia (multiple countries), private issues (multiple countries), non-accepted designs (the so-called NA's from Belgium), the blueprints (the Netherlands), black prints (multiple countries), ... All items without any postage value.

A collector - philatelist or not - usually keeps a few peripheral collections in addition to his stamps (illustrated postcards, blueprints, black and white sheets, ...). Items also included in the official stamp catalogs. Sometimes difficult to obtain, sometimes very expensive. Postage stamps Germany and the Netherlands, for example, do not achieve a 5% sales value. Erinnophilia easily makes 150% of the catalog value. Some pieces well above 1000 euros each.

Placing those items with the crappy cinderella seems to me ... (fill in the blanks :)).
Cinderellas to me are worthless things, that are not in any catalog, that have been issued (usually printed with the cancellation included) for sale and have never seen the country of origin (and actually have nothing to do with it). Beautiful pictures, such as Panini stickers. No more. They should actually be in a separate section 'Nep-Panini'. Just as the stickers from the sticker books of K3 with the children do not belong in Stamps either. Imagine.

Another group are eg the Maluku Selatan issues and the Viennese editions. The first 2 types of the first are not cinderellas. The 3rd and 4th kind are. But who will deny that 3rd and 4th species if his area of interest is the (former) areas of the Netherlands? Viennese editions were 'made' before independence, and only 'artificial' and hastily put into circulation a few days after Indonesian independence. Coincidence, fate and circumstances, yes, but a golden hit for that American who has saved quite a bit of money.
Bahalve Viennese Prints are not included in the official Zonnebloem catalog (at least from 1974) nor in the Michel catalog. But specialized catalogs are devoted to it: Dai Nippon. Still a household name in philately?

Conclusion: Postage value should not be a parameter. However, the severity level (whether or not stated in the official catalogs, and / or in specialized philatelic catalogs).

Hopefully you are a reader because I am a writer.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 2,404 messages
  • October 31, 2020 11:34
5K
added
2.5K
prices
25
info pages
100K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 11:34

Didn't read your article, but you've already read this

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
Morits
POWER
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,226 messages
  • October 31, 2020 12:25
1K
added
10K
prices
25K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 12:25

Fazerco

however, it does not say what can be entered with stamps, only how to fill in the fields

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 2,404 messages
  • October 31, 2020 12:30
5K
added
2.5K
prices
25
info pages
100K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 12:30

I have no idea, I've never read it.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 13:41
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 13:41

I had already found the handbook and waded through it in a nutshell. But an enthusiast would prefer to fly into it as quickly as possible.

It is clearly stated in the manual under point 4 'Select from the list an area to which the item belongs'. The erinnophilia items belong to Belgium. But then what is the reason that someone changes a dozen of them with a new input from a new person here on this site? Bit confusing.
I start my collection here with Belgium, and suddenly notice that I already have a collection on Fantasy Island ... Attractive name, yes.

Out of courtesy, I first asked the person concerned. However, if there is no answer, then I am only too happy to open a discussion here on the forum.

So: do I change a few thousand (to fantasy country) from Belgium and the Netherlands? I like to put in some time. But also like to hear the motivation and the reason.

Or ... is the change to fantasy land of the 10 in question a mistake by someone who does not (yet) know what he / she is doing? Then I can limit my time to changing the changes (putting back what was entered) in about 10 items.

Any decision is a good one, as long as it is decided :)

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 2,404 messages
  • October 31, 2020 13:54
5K
added
2.5K
prices
25
info pages
100K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 13:54

Do a quick search on the forum for fantasyland / cinderella, enough should come up.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 14:22
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 14:22

@fazerco

Wanted, found one topic (2016), but unfortunately no answers ... these are scarce today.

I think tonight I will start migrating several thousand items from the Netherlands and Belgium to Fantasy Land?

No, seriously now, I'll just assume that Loriot doesn't know the clapper and will undo his changes to my contributions.

Normally, out of courtesy and respect, you might assume that if you think that someone is registering an error - and does so several times - you will make contact to clarify: that you will change and why. This is the only way a new member can learn. These changes came up spontaneously because it is a 'country' that I had not introduced / added to. And thanks to the 'history' I was able to make an attempt to correct the lack of communication. If nothing comes from both sides, then there is nothing, right? Then we get stuck on the level unconsciously incompetent.

Which parts of my additions are being systematically changed without my realizing it? I have no idea ... Maybe I will find out by chance sometime, in x number of years. And then experienced the famous 'aha' with the idea: if I had known that before, I would not have repeated that mistake thousands of times (unconsciously).

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 247 messages
  • October 31, 2020 17:47
500
added
500
prices
10
info pages
10K
reviews
250
posts
October 31, 2020 17:47

Justified concerns from Raoul62. I don't really understand Erinnophilia, but I think it's worth a discussion based on the comments above.


@Raoul, can you share the catalog numbers of some of 'your' items that were moved from Belgium to Fantasyland?

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 18:00
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 18:00

@MennoGo

The series 'For the Mutilated' LD number 8273601, OBP E2, 1915

It now says 'own copy' ... and I don't see the history anymore, I think (still the last editor) ... Still searching the thread on LD.

A series of 6. With a fantastic story behind it. But ... when I get to that ... I'm a writer you know lol
Still an important series of Be + Ne.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue manager
  • 8,580 messages
  • October 31, 2020 18:03
10K
added
1K
prices
50
info pages
250K
reviews
5K
posts
October 31, 2020 18:03

Why is this not covered by Sealing Stamps?

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 18:07
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 18:07

And the 1942 series 'Prisoners of War'.

LD number 8275339, OBP E30, series of 4.

I did bump into item 1328977 and I wonder what the story behind this item is. The sheet is neither an innophilia nor a private issue (i.e. not in the OBP). Have searched around a bit but nobody knows who, what, when, for what. Anyone who has an idea can always send a message.
This just in the edge. The question surfs on the waves of the subject.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 18:09
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 18:09

@Arco

The problem is now the land. What specifications ... I thought someone had whispered to me 'Without postage'. But at the moment I'm not sure about anything anymore ... started something :)

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue manager
  • 8,580 messages
  • October 31, 2020 19:04
10K
added
1K
prices
50
info pages
250K
reviews
5K
posts
October 31, 2020 19:04

What I mean is: no country, no mention of value: seal stamp anyway, like this one, which was introduced yesterday.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 19:25
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 19:25

no country ... Great Britain never mentions a country? Comes close of course to Fantasy (island) land :)

No value ... 'lettre 20g' and 'inkand' are also no values. And 1 World (Belgian) neither. The value depends on the present. Last year, that listing represented a different value than it does now.

If I have it right, the Americans don't always look neatly U.S. Cinderellas? I hope not.

I wouldn't want blueprint 12 (5968659) to disappear from the Netherlands, right? There it says' Ned. Indie 'on, but it is and will remain a blueprint for the Netherlands (with mention in the NVPH). 6649549 would have to move to Curacao again ... The one from 2017 to Suriname. And that of 2018 could possibly also pop up in Australia. For example, it is difficult to manage your own collection using LD I think.

Revenons au moutons ...
I think (mentioned somewhere above) whether or not it is mentioned in stamp catalogs (official or specialized) is a better and above all more measurable rule ... With less chance of 'fru' things at specialized philatelists.

The biggest bunch of Cinderellas are totally worthless. I can also make pictures with or without a perforation around it. But one are a number of pieces that the layman considers cinderella, that are not worthless. Even valuable (eg the Maluku Selatan series of 3 stamps, the one with map and flag on it). So valuable that specialized catalogs include them. You don't put it in the garbage in Fantasyland, right? Otherwise, I would be happy to come and collect that trash can.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue manager
  • 8,580 messages
  • October 31, 2020 19:33
10K
added
1K
prices
50
info pages
250K
reviews
5K
posts
October 31, 2020 19:33

'1', '2', 'lettre 20g' are also value indications. That other catalogs include something is not a measure. We also record everything. The only question is: where? Sealing stamps belong to Other home.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 247 messages
  • October 31, 2020 20:15
500
added
500
prices
10
info pages
10K
reviews
250
posts
October 31, 2020 20:15

The question is indeed: where to include them in the catalog.

For me there is (certainly instinctively) a difference between fantasy land / cinderellas on the one hand and 'stamps' that are linked to an existing country but are not real stamps with postage value.

You can call this 'seal stamps', but they originally have a specific purpose, being to 'close' a letter (on the back). The few examples that I see passing here are similar, but it is still a broader application.


In other words, the question seems to be: do you see innophilia as a separate section (as well as sealing stamps), or do you consider these items as a type of use under stamps, such as 'postage', 'service', express, ... however also 'julzegels', and - correct me if I'm wrong - these are often no more than a kind of seal stamps ... Same for the use type 'regional'.

Fascinating discussion, which may have been held before ...

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 20:34
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 20:34

@MennoGo

Discussion has indeed already taken place in various places, but I do not find any really clear or appropriate answers.

Erinnophilia is so important that the Belgian Official Catalog devotes a special chapter to it, and the items also effectively special catalog numbers. Such as tax stamps (penalty postage): TXnnn, blocks: BLnnn, so you have innophilia: Ennn and Private issues: PRnnn.

The story behind it is especially valuable to me. And the story is certainly not in the direction of seals. These items are very different from vignettes to close a cover. The items from 1915 (E1-E6) were even banned by ordinance by the German commander of the stage area (have a copy of a newspaper extract of that somewhere). There were even severe penalties for possession in German-occupied territory. A bit like the United States is doing now with Cuban stamps. But that's another story :)

In concrete terms, the question remains on LD: if there are already entries Ennn on LD, in the country Belgium. Why are new Ennn additions in Belgium partly transferred to Fantasyland (and others not).

That's the crux of the matter. Now I don't know what to think about it, and will therefore not add anything in that direction for the time being, of course. When I'm busy with my Erinophilia collection, I want to be able to get the overview on LD in one place. Otherwise I don't see the usefulness of LD as a resource. Then we better stick to the good old fashion method: mutilating the paper catalog with pencil and ballpoint pen.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue manager
  • 8,580 messages
  • October 31, 2020 20:35
10K
added
1K
prices
50
info pages
250K
reviews
5K
posts
October 31, 2020 20:35

You won't hear me saying that there are no more items in Stamps that don't belong there. But before another ditch is added that we have to move later, I prefer a well-thought-out decision.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 20:43
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 20:43

@Arco

Voilà, that's it :) ... a decision (and maybe also included in the manual).

Not urgent for me, I have months (years) of work to get my philately empire on LD. So you can still get away with some things for the time being.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 499 messages
  • October 31, 2020 21:54
10K
added
100K
prices
10
info pages
500K
reviews
500
posts
October 31, 2020 21:54

@ Raoul62

As mentioned earlier, you can place those stamps in the stamp catalog, in this case for Belgium. Send me a list of the numbers you entered and moved. I'm going to take a look.

It is a wiki, other users may have a different opinion and change the entered data. You can of course send a message to the person asking why. Many users do not read the forum.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • October 31, 2020 22:26
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
October 31, 2020 22:26

Thank you @postmaster

Indeed I could, and I did. See my post from 31-10- 2020 13:41:27 :

'Out of courtesy, I first asked the person concerned. However, if there is no answer, then I am only too happy to open a discussion here on the forum. '

Given the sparse response I have doubts about a different opinion ...

The series that it is about in message from 31-10-2020 18:00:45 and 31-10-2020 18:07:20:
- the series 'For the Mutilated' including LD number 8273601, OBP E2, 1915. It is a series of 6;
- and the 1942 series 'Prisoners of War' including LD number 8275339, OBP E30 ,. This is a series of 4.

I can also just give them back their origin (Belgium) myself, but that seemed a pointless action to me. Changes to the modified changes may be changed back after an hour ... that way you can keep busy.
An open discussion with the possibility of decision seemed more meaningful, and more transparent.

Item 1328977 is not mine, but I wonder where it belongs. I don't know the story behind this issue (yet).

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 499 messages
  • November 01, 2020 14:45
10K
added
100K
prices
10
info pages
500K
reviews
500
posts
November 01, 2020 14:45

I don't know where to place 1328977 either. I now see that the image comes from another website. There is a watermark in the image. The next question is whether the item really exists or is only somewhere on a site.

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
  • Catalogue administrator
  • 4,023 messages
  • November 01, 2020 15:13
10K
added
25K
prices
100
info pages
250K
reviews
2.5K
posts
November 01, 2020 15:13

@postmaster

The item exists, I have it somewhere. Once bought on a site (Del ...) because it intrigued me, and now I come across it here. There is a toothed and a toothless appearance. Is in my collection.

Inquiry with the seller then only raised questions about origin, purpose, use, type ... I was able to find out which aircraft (name and type) are on it: 'Lockheed F-104 Starfighter'. But the real story behind it is still a mystery to me.

When I saw this one here my question marks came up again ... Would nobody in the world know anything (anymore) about the origin of this object?

Message has been translated from Dutch
Show original message
Go to page
25of 31