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October 30, 2013 21:01

Now that I'm going wild again, one of the administrators should explain something to me (and please not the argument because the NVPH catalog says so, use your own brains please)

All countries that keep the same name as a country in their history remain 1 country regardless of who is / was the boss.

For example, India has been a colony, a crown colony, an autonomous area, a member of the British Commonwealth and ultimately completely independent.. but I Catawiki remains India.

Hong Kong was first British since 1999 Chinese, but it remains Hong Kong.

This applies to all countries on Catawiki except for ''our'' colony Suriname, which is still called Suriname as a colony and as an independent state. Only our NVPH knows the difference, and as tame sheep we act as if it makes complete sense,

This unique Dutch view of the situation is completely illogical for non-Dutch people, can someone explain to a foreign philatelist why Suriname is unique in philately according to Catawiki?

According to the whole world and the United Nations, Indonesia has been independent since 1945, even our own government admitted a few years ago that 1945 is the year and not 1948/1949, but Catawiki, which overtook the NVPH, missed the boat.

We can only become a world catalog if we treat ''our selves'' the same as the rest of the world, in this we are not unique or special.

Make basic rules that apply to everyone, and don't treat your own country as an exception / different, the philatelic outside world doesn't understand that.

Catawiki stamps grow up and question your own dogmas, why are they there?, the reason??... we are typing over a catalog that was started 80 years ago strangely twisted has had to adapt to the history that passed by during his appearance and therefore tried to straighten crooked things, we will not rectify that with a new catalogue, we find it quite normal that that crooked somewhat amateurish out of necessity is normal we we take it over as quite normal without question a new catalogue, why straighten something that is crooked if you can?, and we keep trying to explain to non-Dutch people that what is crooked in the eyes of the rest of the world is actually very straight (if the rest of the world is willing to look after it like a Dutchman)

Someone with some ''power'' within stamps who can & want to explain to me why we treat the Netherlands (and its history) differently from the rest of the world?

And if we continue to do it stubbornly, how can we explain this acceptably to our non-Dutch fellow users?

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Morits
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October 30, 2013 21:55

Sinbad what is different about Suriname for example? Because you do not indicate that I do not understand your story.

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October 30, 2013 22:48

India and all other colonies of other European countries remain the same country

Suriname exists 2 x (as the only one) 1 x as a colony and 1 x as an independent republic

Suriname is the only old colony of a European country that becomes a ''new'' country in Catawiki, Sri Lanka, India, Hong Kong ect ect just remain a country whether the old colonizer is now in power or whether it has become independent.

The reason the Dutch catalog goes to 1975

The Dutch catalog builder Zonnebloem publishes a catalog of Suriname as an independent country from 1975, are there collectors in the world who know these two catalogues, no, they do not speak Dutch, all major catalogs (Michel, Scott, Yvert) see Suriname as a net like any other formal colony.

The rest of the world (rightly) does not understand why Suriname takes up a separate position only in the Netherlands

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November 07, 2013 12:03

I wouldn't worry about it.

BTW: just changed a few dozen items from Suriname to Suriname (Republic) :)

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November 07, 2013 21:16

wboskamp,

Well done (for all Dutch people).

But unfortunately no substantive answer from administrators for all non-Dutch fillatelists for which it is also logical and clever for It is perfectly logical to me that you as an old-school Dutch collector are not concerned about this, it does not make me sleep any worse for that matter, but that does not alter the fact that it is illogical, inconsistent and is not philatelic worldwide conform.

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  • November 07, 2013 21:22
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November 07, 2013 21:22

"old-school Dutch collector"

You know me? Funny, I don't like you.

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November 07, 2013 21:37

wboskamp

"old-school Dutch collector"

You know me? Funny, I am not you.

I don't know you even if you say so, but if someone drives a Mazda, he drives a Mazda even if I don't know him, by the way maybe you know me, because in real life my name is no Sinbad de Zeeman at all :)

But you probably do W. Boskamp (again an assumption on my part, by the way)

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November 07, 2013 22:47

Good point Sinbad. Partly due to the fact that the NVPH has been digitally imported / copied into Catawiki, but it is not a logical distinction at all. Well, if you are talking about Congo / Zaire, for example.

From a Dutch point of view, it is all understandable, but as you already indicated internationally ...... cannot be explained.

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November 08, 2013 00:37

Out of frustration about the breaking of the Kingdom bond, the Republik Indonesia was thrown out of the NVPH, even though various stamps [number and Temple stamps] continued to be used in Sukarno's Indonesia for a long time. Even the perforation variants [from 1955 and later] were not allowed in the NVPH !!!

In Suriname the same trouble! The colony's seals had to be different from those of the Republic ....

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November 08, 2013 00:41

That's nice to write with the background information, but otherwise no reason to mention the same country twice ... right?

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November 08, 2013 11:13

A cursory investigation inside and outside Catawiki revealed that, among others, the following pairs are considered two "countries":

Ceylon/Sri Lanka

Northern Rhodesia/Zambia

South Rhodesia/Zimbabwe

Dutch East Indies/Indonesia

This applies to both stamps and coins.

At first glance, it seems strongly that only the name change of the area in question determines the dividing line. But in Suriname it is the kingdom/republic form of government that forms the division, and not a name change.

In the Stanley Gibbons, which I use for the English territories, the territory of the island of Ceylon is again treated as a whole under the current name of Sri Lanka, but starting with formerly Ceylon. Unfortunately I don't have an Yvert, Scott or Michel, so I can't compare with them (Who helps?).

The NVPH catalog apparently uses the change of government, the Stanley Gibbons the territory where the stamps were in use. The policies are therefore different from each other, and if you want to combine them in one catalog (Catawiki), that must lead to problems.

Dick

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November 08, 2013 11:39

If you want to combine that in one catalog (Catawiki), it must lead to problems.

I really don't know why. Like the other catalogs you mention, Catawiki is one of them too. And who can make his own choices, right? In fact, the must do that.

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November 08, 2013 13:03

In Indonesia, the NVPH includes the first series of temples after independence; then throws up an interim printing thing as RIS but then it is over.

Although the same series without RIS will remain in circulation until mid-1958. The later variants - so clearly belonging to an Indonesia that no longer belongs to the Kingdom hears - will still be mentioned, however, other stamps published in the same period [1951-1958] have been banned ...

Can CataWiki solve this ????? Looks like it is !! Thanks to Collect-A-Rom!

Since 1948 Indonesia is just Indonesia regardless of the state form! The name Indonesia was introduced by the Dutch even before they largely handed over the country to Soekarno c.s.

What remains is the rebel club since 1945 and their stamps. Sjors and Sjimmie were holy about that! Many Dutchmen who came out after years of camp under the Japanese yoke were expertly cut down by these rebels ...

But if the Taliban ever issues its stamps, they also have the right to a place in the CataWikiPZ!

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November 08, 2013 13:50

If you want to combine that in one catalog (Catawiki), it must lead to problems.

The problem lies in the word "combine [policy]". That implies a dependence on other catalogs, of which the stamp section is drenched.
It is probably swearing in the church, but if Catawiki really wants to become the leading stamp catalog, then to start with the fields NVPH number, Michel number, Yvert number , Scott number and Stanley Gibbons number should be deleted. You don't see those catalogs mentioning their competitors' data, do you ?!

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Morits
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November 08, 2013 14:00

You're right book warehouse, that including other catalogs is of course 'deadly' for an independent stamp catalog.

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November 08, 2013 14:58

If this is such an open door why haven't we done it yet ????

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November 08, 2013 18:31

Rein, that is asking for the known way.

What's wrong is the fact that almost everyone (collectors as well as dealers) sticks to their own, "trusted" catalogue.

That is because they all need a certain order in collecting: an identifiable number, not open to interpretation. So a number in a catalog must be unequivocally traceable to one specific stamp.

This means that there is a need for a well-established naming policy for the area, plus a sequence number that is not subject to change (always maintained).

A form of policy could be to simply keep the number that an item gets when it is imported into Catawiki. But that will be doomed to fail in advance, because there is also a need to arrange items chronologically or to classify them according to families (plants, animals), or to themes/subjects . The danger is also lurking: how far should you go when subdividing?

In short: the catalog managers must draw up a clear policy before Catawiki can become a real catalog. Now other catalogs are dutifully used as "guidelines", with the result that Catawiki is nothing more than an electronic form of existing, printed catalogs. Sticking to that will not solve the problem that started this thread.

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November 08, 2013 19:32

Dick,

if the various catalogs only used a different numbering and you could make a 1-1 relationship, it didn't matter. Yv 50 = Mi 46 = CW 49, etc ...

The problem is that there are different views on how to get 1 or 5 different main numbers. As stated in other threads before - there is no basic seal!

There is so much discrepancy among the various catalog makers in what they involve in determining these are different seals and they are one and the same thing. The NVPH is a big mess, but Michel has also messed up the last 20 years at Germany Special ... You should follow my comments on Michel on the Michel forum!

And the many extras you can fill in at CataWikiPZ is SO poorly thought out and considered - oops! I can't say that !! - that there is no longer any rope to be tied to! There is no system in it !! And that takes revenge! Despite all good intentions, it crashes!

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November 08, 2013 20:14

I still don't get why you give a reference we are catawiki

and not a clone of it!

and that is not only the case with stamps but for every category!

just let this kind of references bleed to death let the other do it

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November 08, 2013 21:26

@Rein.

If you have ever given 1 positive response please let me know where and when that was ..

You know everything better and that already over many years.

Too bad the stamp world has not improved despite all these negative insights from you.

Keep it up, I feel comfortable.

Let us cook well in our soapy water and if we no longer succeed at all, we can always read strop books with a beatle music.

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November 08, 2013 21:45

That soapy water you want to cook in is of course also the spacious soapy water on which the entire Catawiki ship should eventually sail a kind of common course, including stamps, comics and beatle music.

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November 08, 2013 21:55

Rob,

what a pity that you cannot criticize as if it were you personally. My criticism of the CWPZ system is mainly the denial that philately cannot be compared to stroopkoeken nor to betel nuts ...

You pretend you have known me for years and you have been annoyed at me for so long. if I eg Postaumaat had enough .... If you were still there, we could exchange ideas.

And what negative insights are involved here? Make that clear!

Greetings, Rein

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November 08, 2013 22:14

"I still don't get that you are referring to us, we are catawiki

and not a clone of it!" the stamps imported from eg Collect-A-ROM ???

And why do you want to reinvent the wheel ???

For some other sections there is no alternative ... Or do you run into copy- right problems.

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November 08, 2013 22:53

Sorry Rein,

I can only agree with you on many things!

Sorry Rob,

I can only proving you wrong in this matter. Rein's comments do make sense. Improvements can only be achieved by first noting that something is wrong, then determining what it is, and then coming up with a solution.

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November 09, 2013 00:07

It is true that categories are not 1 for 1 comparable, but at least 80 percent are similar.

Which I have a problem with why use a different catalog numbering

I always have the feeling with stamps that you always have to have 3 caralogs in addition to catalogues, why?

I also see that with coins?

that at the start of catawiki certain info was used directly to fill and also to use the knowledge available at that time okay.

But you have now laid a bodum, a foundation and why then arise after other catalogues?

we try to be/become unique with, among other things, Mandatory own scan(s) so that we can also see that an item also exists.

we want to see what an item is the description should splash off the item scan

therefore no pictures of the net of bolcom or whatever.

As a result, no mention of other sources is necessary!

And not with arguments that our club has been doing for years or others that is also common at our club etc.

We are not a comparison site, we are catawiki!

Make yourself unique and stay unique!

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